The downside to multiple pairs of speakers in one room

[illinoisteve]

I'm glad I read this thread. I had LONG expected that this woofer was soaking up sound from my stereo when he was unpowered like this:

 

[JoeESP9]

It's quite easy to determine whether or not unused speakers negatively effect the sound. Simply remove all the unused speakers in your room and listen for a day or so. Replace them and listen for a day or so. I'd be interested in "hearing" what the results are.

The more unused speakers in the room the greater the difference in sound will be with and without them .

 

[musichal]

Manufacturers often use various methods to diminish diffraction effects of baffles, cabinet edges and grills. Most speakers sound their best with some space behind them and from side walls. Enthusiasts often go to the trouble to keep the space between the speakers uncluttered by furniture or TVs. So, ignoring cabinet resonances and drivers, just the presence of multiple cabinets surrounding a pair of speakers in place means sound is affected, and not in a good way. Some have walls of speakers side-by-side with smaller atop. Liking it that way is one thing; claiming effects are negligible quite another. At least, to my way of thinking. Oddly, ostrich and sand somehow spring to mind; don't know why.

 

[62caddy]

If we are to be brutally honest with ourselves, the vast majority of rooms we call "listening areas" are acoustic trainwrecks.

Fretting over unused speakers in a room would be akin to ordering two triple cheeseburgers, large fries and an apple pie then worrying over whether to wash it all down with a Diet Coke.

Might also point out that I've never been to an audio shop that didn't have MANY pairs of speakers on display in any demo room that I've seen, and apparently without ill effect. I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall watching the salesman's reaction to being asked to remove them all by a prospect...

*There are many more speakers in the room below not pictured.

 

[hjames]

I never really grasped the concept of more than one pair of speakers in a listening environment (excluding of course surround sound for home theatre).
If the speaker does what it's supposed to do, all you need is two. If you need more than two, then your present speakers (or system) are lacking something, and/or your room setup is not optimal.
I'm with the pig on this one.

Nah, some speakers are great for rock'n'roll, some are great for accoustic music and jazz, some are great for more complex music like classical -
There really is a difference - and thats part of why we own so many different kinds of speakers.

That said, tho I've posted pix with multiple pairs in the same 2 channel room, I've sold off most of my extras and rarely have more than 2 pair these days.

Until I get the Altec Model 15s working later this week ...
(I'll probably stash the JBL L212s and the Volkswoofer for a bit, & leave the VR4s on the outer edge of the room)

 

[Pimpsta763]

I am some what late with a response. I do not have the KEF 104/4 Kube. After removing the the KLF 20 speakers I replaced them with a pair of KEF 103.2 and they both sound great like they should. This got me thinking the 103.2 are a sealed box and the KLF20's are a ported box with the ports on the back. Since the KLF's have the port on the back, the bass is reflecting off the wall and getting nulled by the ports on the back. Just a thought out loud it could be the choice of speakers in the same room that may make all the difference. I am a floor stander type of guy, I may just leave it this way for some time. Everything is driven with McIntosh gear, C46/pre and MC302-104/2 MC152-103.2. Thanks

 

[restorer-john]

There's been a few posts from guys who worked in HiFi retail (myself included) and they say essentially the same thing. Bear in mind, the speaker rooms had a lot of speakers in them and were otherwise, quite well designed in terms of acoustics. That meant small changes were immediately obvious.

When we filled up the speaker room with speakers, we were subtracting from the overall volume of the room and, at the same time putting in damped sound pressure wave shock absorbers. A bit like bass traps used by some- except there was rows of them. Each unpowered speaker acted as a bit of a leach that sucked out a bit of bass- especially the big bass-relflex speakers with their highly compliant woofers.

Small speakers (bookshelfs) were especially affected- imagine trying to create a pressure wave and having all these big 12" drivers along the bottom row 'sucking' up all their efforts?

Hence my term- passive absorbers.

 

[Todd Dodds]

Manufacturers often use various methods to diminish diffraction effects of baffles, cabinet edges and grills. Most speakers sound their best with some space behind them and from side walls. Enthusiasts often go to the trouble to keep the space between the speakers uncluttered by furniture or TVs. So, ignoring cabinet resonances and drivers, just the presence of multiple cabinets surrounding a pair of speakers in place means sound is affected, and not in a good way. Some have walls of speakers side-by-side with smaller atop. Liking it that way is one thing; claiming effects are negligible quite another. At least, to my way of thinking. Oddly, ostrich and sand somehow spring to mind; don't know why.

With K-horns spaced approx. 20' apart, in corners, I made a point of having the wall between them clear. I have read and heard criticism of K-horns' imaging not being the best. My only observation was that the only thing lacking was the depth dimension, that the players seemed to be lined up right in front of the wall.
I had a couple pairs of DQ-10's that I wanted experiment with, and built quick makeshift racks to stack them, with 36" x36" plywood bases and plastic sliders on the bottom to make them easily moveable on carpet. I listen to them pulled 7 or 8 feet out into the room. When not in use, I slide them out of the way, and one day decided to slide them up againt that blank, open wall between the horns. So, basically, the 4 DQ's, side by side, form a screen 6' x 6' and 18" away from the wall (because the 36" doesn't let them go flush up to the wall, centered between the cornerhorns. This wasn't by design or any acoustics genius. It was because they needed to go somewhere, and there was a space. I fired up the horns to see if the DQ's would interfere, and was satisfied everything still sounded good. Hey, wait a minute...do my ears deceive? Depth was actually apparent, the singer was in front of the piano.
In this instance, I wouldn't call the effects negligible. It was a significant improvement, all by blind, dumb luck.

 

[45rpmspinner]

A bit like bass traps used by some- except there was rows of them. Each unpowered speaker acted as a bit of a leach that sucked out a bit of bass- especially the big bass-relflex speakers with their highly compliant woofers.

Diaphragmatic bass traps....which often look a lot like speakers, but are usually far less sensitive.

 

[onepixel]

Remove the 5 pairs of speakers from the room. What do you hear?

Everything else is conjecture.

 

[tubed]

I've read you can determine the the "condition" of your listening room acoustics by performing a simple hand clap.
An empty reflective room will echo loudly compared to a dead overly absorptive room.
There's a subjective in between.
Room volume is more important to the way your speakers sound than the number of unused speakers in the room, imo.
Who knows the absorptive aspect(if it really exists) of extra unused speakers may very well make up for any overly reflective aspects of the room and enhance the listening experience

 

[62caddy]

I have no doubt there can be negative sonic effects if the room is filled with dozens unused speakers.

The question is how many before it becomes audible or even measurable.

Another point completely omitted is exactly what are the speakers are we talking about? There's sure to be a difference between JBL 4345 ported with 18" woofers and a pair of Boston Acoustics A40 acoustic suspension with woofers of 6.5"- probably a lot less.

Then again we can talk about the vase sitting on the fireplace mantle - or even the fireplace itself, the carpets, drapes, the sofa etc etc etc. Where does it end?

 

[don philipe]

62caddy, I agree ,it doesn't end. I have 4 pairs of speakers in my room hooked up to a switcher box.If I'm listening to jazz I like the AR's,r&r,JBL's etc.I also have room treatment and everything sounds fabulous. I think having all those speakers in the room may have some effect on the overall sound but it certainly isn't doing any harm,at least not to my ears.
By the way 62,I noticed you have an A/T 440mla cart on your Pioneer,how do you like it? I had the oppertunity to try one on my setup and was amazed at the clarity.I may have to spring for one.

 

[62caddy]

.
By the way 62,I noticed you have an A/T 440mla cart on your Pioneer,how do you like it? I had the oppertunity to try one on my setup and was amazed at the clarity.I may have to spring for one.

I've been very pleased with the performance of the 440 MLa over the last 7 years I've had it. Tracking abilities are outstanding.

MLa is been succeeded by the MLb which probably performs just as well.

 

[toxcrusadr]

I feel like the bottom line of this thread is "here's something to be aware of with your room and system."

Kind of along the lines of...

 

[E-Stat]

Bear in mind, the speaker rooms had a lot of speakers in them and were otherwise, quite well designed in terms of acoustics. That meant small changes were immediately obvious.

The shop where I worked in college had two listening rooms. The one with receivers did have a number of bookshelf speakers in it - including some competing brands we didn't sell. While we sold nice FMI and ADS brands, most in the room still sounded kinda boxy.

The upstairs room, however, was quite different. One set of electronics drove the speakers. Originally with Tympani IIIs at one end of the room and either Dahlquist DQ-10s or MG-IIs at the other. Later, the Maggies were replaced with Dayton-Wrights and Acoustats.

 

[drumbum]

Whew! Glad I only have 37 speakers, including subs in my 12'9"x11'8"x8' office/conservatory.

 

[Todd Dodds]

Whew! Glad I only have 37 speakers, including subs in my 12'9"x11'8"x8' office/conservatory.

They probably sound just fine, because you and I know that the secret lies in the choice of speaker wires .

 

[drumbum]

They probably sound just fine, because you and I know that the secret lies in the choice of speaker wires .

Been thinking about running some 10g solid core. Maybe later,...some Frank Bretschneider is sounding adequate right now through these NLA's.

 

[zebra03]

I've read you can determine the the "condition" of your listening room acoustics by performing a simple hand clap.
An empty reflective room will echo loudly compared to a dead overly absorptive room.
There's a subjective in between.
Room volume is more important to the way your speakers sound than the number of unused speakers in the room, imo.
Who knows the absorptive aspect(if it really exists) of extra unused speakers may very well make up for any overly reflective aspects of the room and enhance the listening experience