Thorens TD 145 MkII

milanomike

Well-Known Member
OK, I have a new stylus on my Stanton 681EEE, picked one following a thread here on these cartridges. I've got it set up and tracking at 1.5 gms. Overall sounds real nice, but I'm thinking i'd like to raise the vertical tracking angle a half a tick to get a bit more high end. Maybe my ears ain't what they was?

Anyhow, it looks like VTA is adjustable, but when loosening what appears to be the right locking screw, the arm doesn't move. So, before I mess it up, thought I'd ask.

Am I incorrect on VTA adjustability with this table? The manual makes no mention of it.

Thanks.
 
It's been a long time but from memory, there are two Allen head screws at 90 degrees to each other.

Officially Thorens wanted VTA adjustment done with headshell shims.

Stanton cartridges came standard on Thorens tables of that era so you should be able to find the correct setting.
 
Cool, will take a look, honestly, it seems pretty darn close right now, was just listening to it. I did notice 2 set screws on one collar and 1 on another, will need to take a closer look.

Of course this thing is what 40 years old and I inherited from an old Uncle (and Aunt). I cleaned and serviced a while back, overall a nice unit, especially considering the cost to me was zero.
 
It's a Mk II so the headshell should be a TP62. Bit of a bear to work with if you don't have the factory alignment gauge (and who does, I've certainly never seen one in the flesh).

The gauge is also the reason why the manual doesn't mention that one can adjust the arm height. If you change it from the factory set height, the gauge is no longer accurate.
 
Wow, something must really rub you about my post, to shoot off so much incorrect information.

1) The tonearm does have VTA adjustment, we already identified that above and the website you link to (which by the way keeps mixing up Mk I and II specs and doesn't know what compliance means, so I would run, not walk, away from such "expertise") shows it, too.

2) Whether VTA is correct when the arm is parallel to the record depends entirely on the cartridge. Most cartridges are indeed designed so their top surface is parallel when VTA/SRA and VTF are correct, but this is not a given.

3) Tonearm height always affects both VTA and overhang, with any tonearm.

4) The gauge you show is for the TP60, not TP62.
 
So much for "all audio, no attitude." It does not appear that you even own, or have ever owned, a 145 Mk II, yet I'm the know-it-all.

Shims do exactly the same as adjusting the height at the base. That's basic geometry. Again, Thorens has to go with shims because of the fixed alignment gauge.
 
Hi milanomike,
I'm a bit leary of jumping in here...But I do own a TD145mkII and have experience with changing cartridges and using the overhang gauges.
The clear plastic gauge is for the TP63 tonearm wand. It will not work on the TP62 (the headshell that is standard on the mkII).
Overhang for the TP62 is set with the top of the tonearm wand box (the little indentions) and is covered in the instruction manual here at VE. If you don't have the box, not to worry, you can still use the Thorens arc protractor V.2, again here at VE.
As has been eluded to in a eariler post, the TP62 is a fickle beast. My experience is it mostly wants to ride tail down. I don't have a 681EEE but I've used a V15, M91, OM20, and currently an AT TC4000.IMG_20160107_123834.jpg
IMHO I would try the 681 without headshell spacers first and adjust the tonearm height by loosening the two Allen screws on the tonearm base and adjusting accordingly.
Instead of leveling the tonearm, try leveling the top of the cartridge to the platter. This should get the VTA very close.
If you can't get it to level out then go to using spacers or shims between the headshell and the cartridge.
I had to "shim" or wedge the front of a cartridge to get it to level out, even though the tonearm was tail down. The tonearm just didn't seem like it would adjust high enough.
I ended up buying a TP63 tonearm wand for my TD145mkII. It's just easier to set up for me.
I am still looking for a cartridge that works with the TP62. Hopefully the Stanton will work for you!IMG_20160209_140432_2.jpg
 
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We're on AK here not VE ;)

Could everybody just take a step back and read the first post? The intent is to get the cartridge a little "tail UP." There's simply no way to do that by adding (straight) shims. Now, maybe there are still shims present that could be taken out, but it doesn't sound like it. Hence, the remaining options are to use a thinner mat and/or to raise the arm.

We also don't know that a gauge is at hand, they don't often stay with a TT for 30+ years. And even if the OP does have it, the arm height could well have been changed from factory spec in these same 30+ years, making the gauge inaccurate.
 
Everyone,

Thanks for all the input, even some of it heated! Noisefreq, I have exactly what you show in the photo and it is a pain to set up, mine sits pretty much level to a tick tail down. I don't have the Thorens bit, but use a protractor I've had for years made by DB systems. I read somewhere it uses the same geometrical approach as Thorens. Either way, I've gotten it to sound good, thinking it can be a tick better. I have found the 2 set screws and so far have no luck at the tonearm moving up or down. I will probably need to move the unit from my table to a spot where I can better work on it. Hopefully, I can do this over the next few nights. I plan to report back.

I had a Pickering V15 on it with a Pfanstheil (spelling) stylus I did not like, I've read they are variable. Since the Stanton came with the unit, I always wanted a better stylus and to put the 681EEE back on the table. Anyhow, a bit more work to do.... Thanks, Mike
 
You may already know this:
I will caution you that lifting the tonearm height too much can result in the tonearm binding and not moving freely in the horizontal plane.
And I've also moved the base ring of the tonearm which resulted in changing the lift point of the auto opti-sensor.
Regardless, it's designed to be adjusted, so I hope you find your sweet spot.
 
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And I've also moved the base ring of the tonearm which resulted in changing the lift point of the auto opti-sensor.
Regardless, it's designed to be adjusted, so I hope you find your sweet spot.
Yeah, that's a little tricky, but do-able.

Were you able to loosen the screws but couldn't move the arm?



Once you get there, I use a little trick that might be helpful. I keep a dedicated gap wrench (as I call it), to keep track of the space I like. It fits right in-between the collar and the bottom of the plastic section holding the anti-skate. It's helps keep it where you want it when you make adjustments. It's easy to slip when you're trying to hold the arm in place and tighten the screws at the same time.

You might also have to move the cue lever up or down to accommodate the change. Same size alan head.
 

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loosened screws but arm has not moved, not sure why, need more time futz with it. But, its on my mind....
 
Sometimes they get stuck. A little WD-40 and some force (rotating left and right) loosened mine.

Of course, what the others said is also true. You then need to adjust the armlift and might mess up tje auto shut off.
 
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