Tidal Masters?

[GP Hill]

I know I’m an idiot when it comes to computers, but I went to that Tidal link you provided and it gave a list of companies that provided devices that allowed you access to Tidal masters, but it also says you can stream masters with their desktop app. So if I have a dac in my preamp that’s capable of handling the high res material, do I still need one of these devices if I have a computer with the Tidal desktop app. I’m not trying to be difficult but I would like to get my streaming music closer in sound quality to my analog rig.

 

[Condorsat]

 

[Erik Tracy]

Good clear explanation.

It may help folks understand what 'level' of MQA they think they are hearing.

I got no dog in this altercation, but when discussions on MQA do pop up, folks should be specific in describing how they are listening to MQA when posting opinions.

 

[GP Hill]

Condorsat, thank you so much. That video helped me understand a lot more than I do now. With my current setup, iPad into my c47 44.1 kHz is the highest quality I can receive. With a computer and the Tidal desktop app I can get 96 kHz without any of the MQA devices. To stream any music with higher resolution from Tidal it will be in the MQA format and I would need one of the MQA enabled devices. Would one of these streaming devices replace my iPad or computer or be inserted between the computer and preamp? Since the dac in my preamp is reported to be a very high quality and great sounding dac would it be bypassed by one of these devices? The more information I get. The more questions I have.

 

[grey]

I know I’m an idiot when it comes to computers, but I went to that Tidal link you provided and it gave a list of companies that provided devices that allowed you access to Tidal masters, but it also says you can stream masters with their desktop app. So if I have a dac in my preamp that’s capable of handling the high res material, do I still need one of these devices if I have a computer with the Tidal desktop app. I’m not trying to be difficult but I would like to get my streaming music closer in sound quality to my analog rig.

The desktop application will play the masters albums at higher resolution. No special hardware is needed to get started. Under settings, you will need to select "Master" under streaming quality and confirm your Mcintosh output device after the install.

 

[GP Hill]

The desktop application will play the masters albums at higher resolution. No special hardware is needed to get started. Under settings, you will need to select "Master" under streaming quality and confirm your Mcintosh output device after the install.

Thanks Grey.

 

[+48V]

MQA is a revenue model, not a technology model especially with its deep rooted DRM.

DRM...deep rooted! Me oh my oh and shiver me timbers!….

WN (worth noting), The specially said DRM "boogie-man" is a well worn and foregone insignificant MQA straw-man…..

Who cares? carry on.
Next.

 

[E-Stat]

DRM...deep rooted!

Yes.

"The remaining seven bits are used to keep track of each customer through a variety of interrogations of their computer including its IP address, time and place of streaming, time and place of any download (forbidden, and a felonyin the US), computer registration and the computer’s owner!"

 

[Wildcat]

I'm with you on this. I can't find a single instance of an improvement for the consumer experience or for fidelity over current standards. I want to be clear that I'm not supporting MQA in any way. While Japan is rolling out DSD streaming, I'm presented with this.

Oh but if you believe editors over at Stereophile, it is the be-all, end-all of hi-res and worse, because none of us were enthused about it, they felt the need to hammer that opinion into his readership every. single. month. As though we were a bunch of tin-eared dolts who didn't "get" mqa. And it makes us all suspect what the motive of the audiophile press is to ram this lossy crap down our throats every. single. month. (Thankfully it has eased up. And I was sick of Stereophile's gaslighting of it anyway.)

Qobuz will make mqa obsolete as far as high-res streaming goes. Why worry about this unfolding bullshit (which is just a way of obfuscating the "lossy" concept of it) when you can get genuine hi-res up to 24/192 from Qobuz, untouched, with nothing to hide? I won't waste money on a DAC supporting something that likely will be another DIVX (remember that laughable one-time competitor to DVD?), and nonexistent in maybe five years or so. I think Bob Stuart is just pissed that DVD-Audio died, and needs mqa for his income stream. (DVD-Audio used Meridian Lossless Packing to store more audio data on a DVD-Audio disc; Meridian was Bob Stuart's company, and MLP was a process that had to be licensed by any company or software that used it.)

Tidal offers nothing...nothing...over Qobuz. Their search is abysmal, completely missing music they actually have. Dropouts are common. Visits to the home page have that rap garbage shoved in our faces; trust me, most audiophiles ain't gangsta, yo. And their way to do hi-res is to offer, what...lossy Tidal Masters? Their selection is also slimmer than most other streaming companies, and Qobuz has been around longer than many of them. I see a mass exodus of Tidal subscribers once Qobuz launches here in the US. For an extra $5/month, they don't have to replace DACs, and get genuine high quality, vs. the "whatever" that Tidal Masters offers.

DSD streaming would be sweet. BTW!

"The remaining seven bits are used to keep track of each customer through a variety of interrogations of their computer including its IP address, time and place of streaming, time and place of any download (forbidden, and a felonyin the US), computer registration and the computer’s owner!"

Bob Carver's quote.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7c4708_a6ad10f865f74369903c44599a91b04b.pdf

And actually, a few have read the patent and indeed, DRM is baked into mqa, although they allegedly are not using that capability yet. It has the ability to be tied to a specific customer. Sure, they may not be using it now, but there's no telling if/when labels start demanding it. (And honestly I'm not against it--I support musicians over audio companies. Ya wants it, ya gots ta pay for it.)

Here's the patent, issued to Meridian (before they split mqa off into its own corporation):

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2014125285

 

[GChief]

I still don’t have all these drop-outs, library losses or problems searching some seem to have

Oh well.

That being said I am not married to it and will try anything new that comes along. Streaming is just my back ground music.

 

[GP Hill]

I’m just going to keep my iPad and pay attention to the technology changes for right now.

 

[GChief]

I am bouncing between Firestick, CCA, Android phone, and Apple stuff and the hand off even works if you do it correctly

Not being a wiener but since I am “new” to doing this also I pay attention to these threads and it seems the same 5 or 6 people are having all the problems. Just my observation, there are probably some more, I didn’t put that much effort into verify that, just my memory



Haven’t looked at Qoduz yet but will.

 

[E-Stat]

Bob Carver's quote.

Mine was a direct quote of his. Return to post# 5 for the reference and scroll down near the bottom for the text.

Kindly quote the text from your link that you'd like to observe. I think you'll find that your reference contains much of that in Bob's post to which I linked - just missing his feelings on the "7 bits".

 

[+48V]

Yes.

"The remaining seven bits are used to keep track of each customer through a variety of interrogations of their computer including its IP address, time and place of streaming, time and place of any download (forbidden, and a felonyin the US), computer registration and the computer’s owner!"

Gadzooks! The horror!

Seriously, someone needs to tell the Bobfather how the internet works. Great FUD though.

 

[E-Stat]

Seriously, someone needs to tell the Bobfather how the internet works.

The internet, interrogation of my server or IP address is simply not involved the playback of any of my digital content.

Perhaps it is the same for him.

 

[+48V]

The internet, interrogation of my server or IP address is simply not involved the playback of any of my digital content.

Perhaps it is the same for him.

I hate to break the news to you but as a Tidal user that's not true. Brace yourself. Your computer has been "compromised". It's been interrogated and your useage metrics, telemetry, and ownership details have been communicated to home base.

Of course the same can be said for users of Google music, Apple Music, Amazon music, iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, Quobuz, HD tracks, etc. I could go on but why bother… It’s how 99% of the online music business works now. SOP yes... Tidal Masters and 7 bit trojans?.....
His "yikes" at the end was icing on top. LOL

I can't speak for what Bob does with his personal digital music collection and consumption. But if he's as concerned as his chicken little quote conveys, then I'd suggest he limit himself to ripping CDs and playing back on air-gapped devices only.

 

[E-Stat]

Of course the same can be said for users of Google music, Apple Music, Amazon music, iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, Quobuz, HD tracks, etc. I could go on but why bother…

Why bother? Exactly! Because you completely miss the point I make.

Playing the ripped or downloaded content on my server does not contact home base or anyone else every time I do so - as opposed to Tidal and others.

Do you understand?

 

[+48V]

Why bother? Exactly! Because you completely miss the point I make.

Playing the ripped or downloaded content on my server does not contact home base or anyone else every time I do so - as opposed to Tidal and others.

Do you understand?

Yes. You pride youself that your in house content is discrete and "safe". I completely understood your point. And you get a big ata boy. (for what exactly I'm not quite sure)

Now to MY point; I also understand that you have a double standard when it comes to "your" digital content being intrusive.

On the one hand you tout a quote by Bob Carver lambasting Tidal Masters/MQA for implimenting nefarious phone home schemes. Yet on the other hand you apparently have no problem with allowing the same info to be catalogued and phoned home via your Tidal subscription.

If you support and agree with Bob's claim that Tidal Masters is horribly unscruplous by, "keeping track of each customer through a variety of interrogations of their computer including its IP address, time and place of streaming, time and place of any download (forbidden, and a felony in the US), computer registration and the computer’s owner!" --why then are you not wringing your hands just as feverishly over Tidal, Google, Spotify, et.al. same behavior? You appear to be talking out of both sides of your mouth here.

That's what I do not understand. May be time to cancel your Tidal sub.

*As a side note FWIW, you give away many of the same personal metrics at the time of sale when you download music from any of the commerial retailers.

 

[E-Stat]

Yet on the other hand you apparently have no problem with allowing the same info to be catalogued and phoned home via your Tidal subscription.

Actually not. Neither the LMS plugin nor Squeezelite running on my endpoints does any *unfolding* much less any using non-MQA licensed DACs. No tracking of personal information here. All the 24 bit content I've downloaded from many sources uses the bits for higher resolution, not for monitoring my server.

Ye*As a side note FWIW, you give away many of the same personal metrics at the time of sale when you download music from any of the commerial retailers.

There is a huge difference between a one time receipt and enabling files with Trojan Horses for constant monitoring.

 

[+48V]

Actually not. Neither the LMS plugin nor Squeezelite running on my endpoints does any *unfolding* much less any using non-MQA licensed DACs. No tracking of personal information here. All the 24 bit content I've downloaded from many sources uses the bits for higher resolution, not for monitoring my server.

You're still not getting it. So let's try again.

Whether you are using Tidal either directly or indirectly through a plugin, your usage metrics and personal info are logged and transmitted back to Tidal home base. "Unfolding" and DACs is moot. If you are under the impression that your LMS and/or Squeezelite act as some sort of firewall and prevents your Tidal installation from harvesting your data, (which includes your IP address, time and place of streaming, time and place of any download, your computer registration as the computer’s owner.) you are mistaken. Tidal collects this information in any instance and tier of their application. Same goes for all streaming services.

There is a huge difference between a one time receipt and enabling files with Trojan Horses for constant monitoring.

Not really. Obviously you are unaware of what personal info and system information is reaped when you register and download media content from say, HD Tracks.

"Once you have registered with us, we may also collect other information about you, including your transactions with us, your service usage patterns, such as the pages on the HDtracks.com Website you have visited, searches you have conducted on our site and the amount of time you have spent on our Website. If you contact us, we may keep a record of your correspondence. If you have registered with us, we may collect information about what music files you possess on the PC you use to sign up with our service and any other PC's networked to that PC. We may also collect information regarding where you obtained that music. We may collect information concerning the bit rate of the encode of music files contained on your PC and/or any PC connected to that PC".

Other like services have the same conditions ("Trojans") and terms of service. So again, if you want the same privacy that Bob heralds and your CD rips provide, you should really consider uninstalling Tidal and refrain from using any streaming service.