Turntable Match -

[MCdeltaT]

I'm looking to get a decent TT. I have B&W 683 s2, a budgie phono stage, Shure V15 type IV (w/ Jico Neo SAS), and a Denon AVR-1300 for my AMP.

My current TT is a Pioneer PL-510A. I want to get a hifi table, but not go overboard...something to match my system. I know spending too much won't give me any return since my rig has limitations.

Am I better going with an Entry Pro-ject....go up to $1,000 range (~Rega P3)....or $2000 (VPI Scout JR or in that range). Seriously, any opinions are very helpful as I have such a tough time since I can't test anything out given my situation. Or should I stand pat, because a new TT won't give me much value? I read a lot that the TT is the least important part of a Rig. Would love to hear all input! Pls!

FYI, I plan to get a PrimaLuna Tube Amp soon as well. Is the amp or TT the smarter purchase up front?

I love my B&W speakers. The Budgie w/ the Jico NEO SAS just took everything to a whole new level that I didn't realize was possible. Really want to see what else I can squeeze from the B&Ws.

 

[EngineerNate]

I'd rather have a DP-75/80 and a good tonearm or a GT2000 than any of those options, if you're willing to stay with vintage and are willing to pay to play.

Belt drive it's hard to beat a marcmorinized AR with a good tonearm for the price. Above that I'd favor the SOTA.

 

[malden]

The Shure V15 lV with SAS will need a high quality turntable with a low mass arm to perform at its highest level.

 

[Hajidub]

I'd keep the TT you have and upgrade from that AVR receiver. A $1000 would get you a great vintage amp or tube setup.

 

[AvFan]

I'd rather have a DP-75/80 and a good tonearm or a GT2000 than any of those options, if you're willing to stay with vintage and are willing to pay to play.

Belt drive it's hard to beat a marcmorinized AR with a good tonearm for the price. Above that I'd favor the SOTA.

OK, I may be biased (see signature below) but I certainly agree that an AR XA/XB that has been modified by Marc Morin is terrific. My comparison is a DD Technics SP-25 with a Jelco SA-750E arm that is quite good but there is something about the AR that just lets the music through. And while your Shure/SAS cartridge is very nice (I have a M91ED/SAS) the modified AR will allow you to move up the cartridge ladder should you choose.

I like the choice of a Budgie phono preamp versus the one that may be in the AVR. In AVRs phono preamps are typically an afterthought and included as a marketing tool. If you get an integrated amp, and Prima Luna have a good reputation, I'd make sure it can drive your B&Ws with enough headroom.

 

[doctor fuse]

I've been adding plasticine to similarly spec'd tables (CEC BD-2000 and JVC L-A21), on the underside of the platter and chassis, and to the base and plinth sides. The improvement to sound to this old design is spectacular (I tried it once, long ago, on a Technics SL-220 with their plastic resin plinth, and the sound just got hard and awful).

Might be worth the $8 in plasticine, and you may fall in love with your Pioneer. It certainly is a beautiful machine, and that S-shaped design of tonearm (with lateral balance weight) is very good (you can experiment with putting rubber O-rings around it, too).

Apologies if you simply want something new. I totally understand that.

 

[MCdeltaT]

Might be worth the $8 in plasticine, and you may fall in love with your Pioneer. It certainly is a beautiful machine, and that S-shaped design of tonearm (with lateral balance weight) is very good (you can experiment with putting rubber O-rings around it, too).

Apologies if you simply want something new. I totally understand that.

I'm interested. Do you have a link with instructions on how this is done? Also, what are the O-rings used for and where placed?

I'm not in any rush to buy anything! As I have slowly gone up the upgrade ladder, I've seen some wonderful improvement. I've always thought my TT is suspect because it's not considered hifi. But I've read enough to understand that the ROI with the TT isn't as great as other components.

Thanks everyone!

 

[MCdeltaT]

The Shure V15 lV with SAS will need a high quality turntable with a low mass arm to perform at its highest level.

Pardew my ignorance, but why does the weight of the tonearm matter (and I know it does, but haven't understood that). If you can adjust the tracking weight, to me, the tonearm mass shouldn't matter.

I also use a Grado Black2. So each cart has an optimal mass tonearm? That can get expensive...if you are the type that switches carts from time to time.

 

[EngineerNate]

Pardew my ignorance, but why does the weight of the tonearm matter (and I know it does, but haven't understood that). If you can adjust the tracking weight, to me, the tonearm mass shouldn't matter.

I also use a Grado Black2. So each cart has an optimal mass tonearm? That can get expensive...if you are the type that switches carts from time to time.

Think of the tonearm and the cartridge's cantilever as the weight and springs of a car respectively. You don't want to run a diesel truck with springs from a Honda civic, or vise versa. Regardless of the tracking force, the tonearm mass and the cantilever on the cartridge form a spring-mass system that's not damped by anything other than the rubber in the cantilever mounting. Bad combos run the risk of resonating at frequencies that are either too high (audible feedback) or too low (skips induced by warps or you walking by the turntable or a truck driving by outside).

The Shure is from the heyday of lightweight tonearms, so it's designed with a very compliant suspension.

 

[doctor fuse]

Here is something about damping the tonearm.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tone-arm-damping-again.803705/#post-11181503

 

[MCdeltaT]

Here is something about damping the tonearm.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tone-arm-damping-again.803705/#post-11181503

Great! Thank you. I will be testing this out.

Thanks EN, great analogy. I get Stereophile magazine and always wondered why tonearms were heavily reviewed as a TT upgrade. I thought it was due to better wiring, but now I see that there is more that goes into it.

I'm an environmental engineer by trade (wastewater process engineer).

 

[doctor fuse]

I only took one photo when I added plasticine to the BD-2000. Not a great photo, and not a great job, but it works a treat. Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[doctor fuse]

I only took one photo when I added plasticine to the BD-2000. Not a great photo, and not a great job, but it works a treat. Hope this gives you some ideas.

View attachment 1163485

 

[doctor fuse]

A well-documented guide to restoring a vintage PL-12D Pioneer turntable.

http://mr-ives.blogspot.ca/2013/07/restoring-pioneer-pl-12d-turntable.html

 

[MCdeltaT]

I only took one photo when I added plasticine to the BD-2000. Not a great photo, and not a great job, but it works a treat. Hope this gives you some ideas.

View attachment 1163485

Thank you!