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Using experied color photographic films (negatives and positives (slides) )

Discussion in 'Cameras and Photography' started by Telecolor 3007, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Telecolor 3007

    Telecolor 3007 I love old stuff

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    Did any one around here used in the past few years expried colour photographic films - both negatives and positives (slides) (reversals). Since I don't like at all the colour of most today's films and I don't know when I will be able to get an "Kodak" Hawkye, I thought I might use expired films. Some people obtained nice results with such films.
    To be ones, I'm curios if I can obtain good images with 10 years old films that wheren't stored into a refregireator or for such old films (and older) cool storage is a must for good/acceptable images.
     

     

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  2. Old Ears too

    Old Ears too Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    I haven't shot film in at least a couple of years now, and when I last did it was with fresh color print film if I recall correctly. I personally wouldn't risk the money spent on developing 10 yr old film, especially 'slide' film if it were me shooting.
    Your mileage may vary, as they say.
     
  3. old_tv_nut

    old_tv_nut See Yourself on Color TV! Subscriber

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    I have had only a little experience with unrefrigerated expired film, and it has varied greatly. I would say you have a 50/50 chance of reasonably good results. The ony time I would spend money on developing unrefrigerated expired film is if it was exposed long ago and I wanted to see what was on it.
     
  4. KingBubba

    KingBubba "Too Much Stuff" Subscriber

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    Location:
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    Heat will be the factor for your use. Heat damage on undeveloped film will cause major color shift. Quite often the color shift is to the amber side of the color range. What you are doing will be a crapshoot. Keep the film in the fridge and take it out well before your plans to go out in any heat. Good luck with your challenge.
     
  5. Telecolor 3007

    Telecolor 3007 I love old stuff

    Messages:
    1,468
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    So I must looking for films that where cool stored.
    If I buy an film, and then store it otuside for more then 3-4 days and put it back in the frigde without using it ... that's not a good ideea, no?
     
  6. old_tv_nut

    old_tv_nut See Yourself on Color TV! Subscriber

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    It's the combo of temperature and time that degrades the film, so having it outside for a few days between coolings is no worse than having it out for only a few days total. Nothing to worry about if the original cooled film was good.

    I hope you know that after you take a sealed roll out of the refrigerator, you should let it warm up for some hours (a day is best) before opening the package, so there is no condensation of moisture.
     

     

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  7. old_tv_nut

    old_tv_nut See Yourself on Color TV! Subscriber

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    FYI:

    Theory of Expired Film Life

    A silver halide grain in photo film produces an electric charge when it absorbs a photon of light. This can also happen due to random thermal energy. However, there is one peculiar aspect to this: if the grain collects only one electronic charge, the charge is not stable, and decays back to a neutral state at a random time on the order of a few seconds. If the grain receives a second charge before the first decays, the combination is much more stable, and experiments have determined that, practically, four charges are required to make a fully stable latent image.

    This requirement for accumulating multiple charges before the initial charge decays has several important results.

    1) If the exposure rate is low (no light, low temperature), most charges will decay and the film will not be fogged significantly. Without this effect, it would never have been possible to make film that could be stored and sold to the public, because it would be continuously getting fogged from the moment it was manufactured!

    2) Exposure to elevated temperatures over long periods will gradually fog the film, because a few grains from time to time will get more than one charge due to thermal excitation. So, refrigeration is helpful for long-term storage. (Note that elevated temperatures could have other bad effects on the composition of the emulsion and the sensitizing dyes that are used to make panchromatic film, but I claim no knowledge of the details or severity.)

    3) As a result of the need for multiple charges within a few seconds, long exposures to low light scenes results in "reciprocity failure." Reciprocity in exposure is the normal inverse relationship between shutter speed and aperture. This fails when the number of photons striking the film per second is too low to make the required four charges in a grain before the first charge decays. This means that some of the light's effect is leaking away before the exposure is complete. So, if you have a film rated for 100 ISO at usual short exposures, it might lose half of the charges in a ten-second exposure, and you would compensate by using a twenty second exposure instead of ten seconds, or open the aperture by one stop; that is, the exposure time is no longer reciprocal to the aperture (the effective ISO has dropped to 50).

    In digital sensors, every charge is captured, but all charge that may have accumulated while the sensor was unused is dumped electrically just prior to exposure. This means there will be some small random variation of charge due to thermal excitation during the exposure, but there is no danger of it accumulating slowly over months ahead of time, the way it can with film. This also means that digital sensors do not have reciprocity falure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  8. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier

    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
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    Up until last month, I had some film in the freezer, including the now-useless Kodachrome. I've had them probably for at least 15 years. Probably best to toss them in the trash, I'm thinking...I have no plans on shooting film, and no point in selling something that might not even be any good anymore.
     
  9. old_tv_nut

    old_tv_nut See Yourself on Color TV! Subscriber

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    It is conceivable that some exotic scanning techniques could separate the amount of silver in each of the three color-sensitive layers in a film that has been developed only to the point of having silver images rather than the final dyes. One small research company that Kodak bought out was working on a proposal for kiosks with rapid development of color film and no stop bath. The film would be scanned somehow just at the point where the silver had developed to normal density, and then the film would continue to develop into a completely fogged state and be discarded in the bottom of the kiosk. Hopefuly, the scanning would be successful and the digital scans would be preserved and used to make prints if desired.

    Some people have tried development of Kodachrome to silver images, but no one has offered a means to scan the amounts of silver in each layer separately, so the result is a dense monochrome image.
    https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/kodachrome-b-w-processing.433103/
     

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