Very Simple Phono Stage questions

IT WORKS!!!!!!

I just got done listening to movement 3 of brahms' violin concerto in D and it sounds good. I also listened to pink floyd's wish you were here side a.

At first the bass was too in my face and pronounced, and then it seemed to relax into the mid range. The treble from cymbals and the higher notes on the violin aren't as crisp as I was anticipating. I'm not complaining by any means, I'm so damn happy to have made something that functions as intended... It would be great if I could make my treble sparkle a little more.

It could of course be the system I'm inputting to. I'll pull it and try it in another one in a little bit.
 
Great! Glad you got it working!

Try interconnects (from th ephono to your preamp) with less capacitance, it's possible that will help add a tad more sparkle.
 
I'm sorry, I'm still getting my feet wet, what are interconnects? I have an RCA cable going from the turntable to the preamp and into the circuit. Sorry for the stupid question...
 
The RCA cable from the turntable to the preamp.

The cartridge's frequency response is optimum when the cartridge "sees" the proper resistive loading (that's the 47K resistor in the VSPS) as well as capacitance. The capacitive load consists of the capacitance of the tonearm wires plus the capacitance of the RCA cables plus any capacitance in the preamp prior to the gain stage (you likely don't have any, I believe the extra capacitance is shown as "optional" on the VSPS schematic) .

Most cartridges perform best with a 47K resistive load but the ideal capacitance is listed in the cartridge's spec sheet. Some like 250 to 300 pF, others may differ. So if the RCA cables are high capacitance, they may already be well over the 300 pF preferred (and the capacitance in the tonearm wiring will make the total even higher). Price is not necessarily an indicator of the RCA cable's capacitance, I've had some expensive ones that were unusually high as well as cheap ones that were fine.
 
Had no idea... I listened again and the cymbals are disappointingly gone. I had my ear next to the needle and I could hear them better tracking in the grooves than through the speakers!

Could it be as simple as the RCA cables? How do you measure capacitance? I read the manual for my cart: Audio Technica AT13ea with a JICO stylus, and it doesn't mention the capacitance beyond an ad for buying low capacitance cables.

These are RCA cables I picked up at the thrift store for 1.00... so I don't have any clue what I have...
 
Well, without a means to measure them, who knows what the capacitance is on your cables. You'd need a digital multimeter (DMM) that measures capacitance.

What's your tracking force? Too heavy, plus improper cartridge setup can affect treble response as well.

Are you sure you used the proper values for R1, R4, and R5 as well as C1 and C2? The Hi-Z version, not the low-z (I used the NE5532 with the hi-Z version, not the OPA2134)

So R1 should be 47K, R2=2.2K, R3=10K (not critical), R4=330K, R5=2.2M, C1=330pF, C2=1.0 nF

I like measuring my components with my meter before soldering them in, I have gotten mislabelled stuff.
 
Well sheepishly, I have to admit that I accidentally cranked the treble knob on my amp to 0 killing the cymbals. I didn't notice until later on. It sounds great! Everything is now present and accounted for and I'm sure after it burns in a little it'll sound even better. I'm very impressed with the sound!

Thanks again! I'll look into cartridge loading in the future but for now I'm happy.
 
G'day all, I probably don't need another DIY phono stage but after reading the quite positive comment on the VSPS, I've decided to build the standard VSPS, mostly to hear what it 'sounds' like compared to my simple DIY design (and similar to the VSPS design).

However the circuit differences are interesting and today I bought all the parts, and I'll start on my 'version' :D possibly later today. Wish me luck! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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I haven't heard much high end gear, just the integrated preamps in some solid state receivers and a dj preamp I picked up for cheap when I got into vinyl.

That being said the thing that shocked me most initially was the amount of bass and midrange. The bass in Dire Straits' money for nothing knocked me on my butt. I didn't even know there was a storm in Brother's In Arms! I also didn't know that there were two voices in Pink Floyd's welcome to the machine.

The other biggest difference that I noticed is the channel separation! I'm just tickled that it works, and works well.
 
Congrats! Good job.

Are you sure you used the proper values for R1, R4, and R5 as well as C1 and C2? The Hi-Z version, not the low-z (I used the NE5532 with the hi-Z version, not the OPA2134)

So R1 should be 47K, R2=2.2K, R3=10K (not critical), R4=330K, R5=2.2M, C1=330pF, C2=1.0 nF

Some time back, Richard decided to go with a one-size-fits-all version,
no Hi and Lo Z. I built my VSPS with these (new mid-way) values,
with NE5532 on a perfboard, and it sounds great.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...oclone-vsps-pcb-help-desk-70.html#post1293682

OcmsRazr, now that it is working, in the interest of safety (and performance too), you can do some cleanup - you have
long leads, some of which are close to or crossing over other
naked leads or solder points.

You can find plenty of nice perf board builds to draw inspiration
from, some of which are works of art.
Just a few from google images -

http://sound.westhost.com/bal2-bd-t.jpg
http://sound.westhost.com/bal2-bd-b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works/5551504373/
http://dinofab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/perf-board-circuit.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/imager/4426448778/
 
It's been many years since I did mine, so I was unaware he had gone with a middle of the road design. How does it accomodate MC as well as MM?
 
I haven't heard much high end gear, just the integrated preamps in some solid state receivers and a dj preamp I picked up for cheap when I got into vinyl.

That being said the thing that shocked me most initially was the amount of bass and midrange. The bass in Dire Straits' money for nothing knocked me on my butt. I didn't even know there was a storm in Brother's In Arms! I also didn't know that there were two voices in Pink Floyd's welcome to the machine.

The other biggest difference that I noticed is the channel separation! I'm just tickled that it works, and works well.

Congratulations, there is something to be said for DIY projects, they are very gratifying.

And it never ceases to amaze me how a simple DIY unit can perform as well or better than commercial units costing many times more.

For those interested in MC stages the designer of the VSPS has his Phonoclone, I even bought the PCB's but I don't have a LOMC so they are in the cupboard waiting for the day.............

http://phonoclone.com/diy-pho4.html
 
Well I built the VSPS circuit.

G'day all, and I'm glad I did. :yes: Similar to the Elliott Sound Products P06, it has a rather lush and 'full' sound about it yet, to my ears the RIAA sounds 'right', however as tested with my AT95E at 47 k it is interesting that the 'coolness' evident with the ESP P06 seems to be much less apparent for some reason! :scratch2:

I built my version on a piece of copper clad circuit board material using so called 'ugly construction' :yes: and I used an OPA2134 dual op amp chip. Initial impressions are that I like the 'sound' of the VSPS more than my existing simple DIY phono stage also using a single dual op amp chip.

Why the two sound quite different will take a bit of thought. :yes: I opted not to include the output coupling capacitor and the 'drain off' resistor as essentially the same components are part of the ESP P88 line preamp input, which immediately follows this VSPS DIY phono stage. Why duplicate?

For such a simple phono stage circuit, it does sound excellent. Recommended! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 

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Felix, I thought you might like to see my style of 'dead bug' breadboarding. Here's a discrete-transistor high-voltage RIAA preamp I've been developing:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108589...8K6kMenFA&feat=directlink#5631529411941255570

For power supply rails, I often use a strip of 1/4" copper tape over 1/2" kapton tape. Hot glue holds things in place if they're not soldered to the ground plane. I can do lots of things with hot glue -- make custom connector bodies, ferinstance. :D
 
Felix, I thought you might like to see my style of 'dead bug' breadboarding. Here's a discrete-transistor high-voltage RIAA preamp I've been developing:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108589...8K6kMenFA&feat=directlink#5631529411941255570

For power supply rails, I often use a strip of 1/4" copper tape over 1/2" kapton tape. Hot glue holds things in place if they're not soldered to the ground plane. I can do lots of things with hot glue -- make custom connector bodies, ferinstance. :D

Post a schematic and I can make a PCB for it.:scratch2:
 
G'day all. Yes mate, lovely stuff. That sort of construction can look 'messy' but beautiful at the same time :D but the best thing is the superb low impedance 'earth' provided by the wide area copper groundplane.

General shielding is also excellent. With this quick lash up there is absolutely no hum pick up as it is pictured! No conventional single sided pcb approach can match that! :yes: Regards, Felix (vk4fuq) aka catman.
 
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From what AK'er atupi found when he built the CNC phono stage, he liked it better than the VSPS. But that is understandable when comparing a one op amp design with RIAA in the feedback circuit against the CNC with a RIAA stage between two gain stages.

The CNC is slightly smoother than the Rod Elliot P06 with a wider soundstage, but any of these stages would sound better than most inbuilt ones. Which come to life when using batteries.:thmbsp:

This gives us a few alternatives when building DIY projects.
 
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G'day mate, yes the 'VSPS' really surprised me with its great performance. Really very nice and quiet too. :yes:

One thing about the circuit that is interesting is that there is no series capacitor in the op amp 'inverting input' lead, whereas practically every similar full feedback phono stage I've seen includes it.

From what I've read in the past, the capacitor is considered necessary, so I'm not sure about that. Can anyone enlighten me please :scratch2: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
G'day mate, yes the 'VSPS' really surprised me with its great performance. Really very nice and quiet too. :yes:

One thing about the circuit that is interesting is that there is no series capacitor in the op amp 'inverting input' lead, whereas practically every similar full feedback phono stage I've seen includes it.

From what I've read in the past, the capacitor is considered necessary, so I'm not sure about that. Can anyone enlighten me please :scratch2: Regards, Felix aka catman.

Felix, the designer is a great guy named Richard - aka RJM from RJM Audio. Go here on DIYAudio and he will surely answer your question.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/57398-phonoclone-vsps-pcb-help-desk.html
 
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