Was 1967-1971 really the best sound?

[My3kidsdad]

In the 45 watts/channel class, I have found 1967 to 1973 to be the peak years for build quality and sonics in Japanese made receivers. This is when the Japanese were designing them for sonics rather than for cost cutting. I think too high damping factors, too much over use of negative feedback, IC circuits in tone circuitry, and nasty ceramic caps in tone circuitry began making a lot of receivers sound inferior to the older models. I have owned many, many receivers and amplifiers over many, many years. In solid state, my Sansui 4000 is my favorite of the lot. Back then too, these units weren't as a rule discounted either. Which meant they could afford to build them better too. For me, in say Pioneer, the -50 series were the last really good models. I also as a rule dislike anything with STK modules in it, a sign of lazy design.

That's what I have been reading too from some points of view. But what the majority seem to be saying is that a retired train engineer with 10-15% hearing loss may not be able to hear the difference. Lol. I do like the styling of the mid-70s receivers more and some of the extra features doesn't hurt either.

 

[My3kidsdad]

I have a G5000 and a G7000 and I like them very well. Excellent all around performers especially with the right speakers. However...that being said...I prefer the sound of my Pioneer SX9000 (1971), my Sansui 3000A (1967), and my Sansui 2000X (early 70's) in most of the set up's I have heard them in.

I do really like the G series receivers though, so as it has been said before, it's really just a matter of preference. All the items I mentioned are quality units from different era's. Those era's tend to sound different from one another, but both sound good. Get one from each time period and do some experimenting. Have fun.

Now that is what I needed to hear, what you think about the comparison between your 2000x, 3000a and your G5000 and G7000. The only solution is to get the Luxman R115 for between times, pick up the G6000 for real, and get a 3000a because it needs to be here in a good home.

 

[My3kidsdad]

...and not just am...the fm section on this 70's aiwa brick gives a hitachi ft-5500 MK2 a very hard time.
And as for the phono stage and amplifier section..there's not a modern budget amp i'd consider swapping it for.
Zero hum , not a hint of hiss and none of that grainy presentation you associate with modern cheap electronics.

Thanks for bringing that up about fm varying from model to model- I have read that some fm is better than others necessitating ownership of the better models for posterity.

I did find it confusing reading about phono sections varying in quality as well. I need to brush up on MM vs whatever the other kind is so I can choose the right table and cartridge. That is an awesome looking Aiwa for sure.

 

[NeonDriver]

I really like the sound of my Kenwood KR-5200, circa 1973 or so. It sounds much better than my mid 80's Rotel or Realistic receivers.

 

[My3kidsdad]

I really like the sound of my Kenwood KR-5200, circa 1973 or so. It sounds much better than my mid 80's Rotel or Realistic receivers.

You like your Kenwood. Good because I have been eyeballing a nice Kenwood KR-9600. Under appreciated it sounds like, everyone seems to like them for their sound.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Subjectively, could be with the following qualifications. In order to determine best, you have to hear a large sample of gear from all of the different sound era's (if that can even be defined.) DBT would be ideal but simple comparo would be good enough. If you have done this, your subjective preference is validated.

Objectively, no. Solid state device and component speed and noise suppression were still being perfected for the consumer market. Near perfect signal reproduction became common in the late Seventies and certainly by the early Eighties.

 

[Binkman]

Back in the late 70's (though there were no computer forums) the same question was probably asked if the 50's and early 60's stuff sounded better.

 

[SFBayArch]

Now that is what I needed to hear, what you think about the comparison between your 2000x, 3000a and your G5000 and G7000. The only solution is to get the Luxman R115 for between times, pick up the G6000 for real, and get a 3000a because it needs to be here in a good home.

For what it's worth, I had a Luxman R-115 and each of my vintage Sony and Sansui solid state receivers from the era you mention were superior to my ears - from the phono stage to the FM tuner section: Dynamic and natural sounding.
The value offered in these receivers which predate the later 70s monster receivers chalk full of NFB circuits for ultra low THD are exceptional. For about $200 you can get pretty darn close to achieving the benefits of that mantra "straight wire with gain"

 

[My3kidsdad]

For what it's worth, I had a Luxman R-115 and each of my vintage Sony and Sansui solid state receivers from the era you mention were superior to my ears - from the phono stage to the FM tuner section: Dynamic and natural sounding.
The value offered in these receivers which predate the later 70s monster receivers chalk full of NFB circuits for ultra low THD are exceptional. For about $200 you can get pretty darn close to achieving the benefits of that mantra "straight wire with gain"

This is gonna be fun. Old but better fits my budget fine.

 

[reggaenaut]

The Sansui 4000 was a great all round receiver.

 

[My3kidsdad]

The Sansui 4000 was a great all round receiver.

I am watching now for a 4000 as well. Thanks for the tip.

 

[bigaltx24]

I wouldn't be too hasty discounting the Luxman R-115. I picked up a R-113 a few months back and to tell you the truth it's now my favorite receiver. My Sansui 881, Pioneer SX-838, SX-3800, and Sony STR-7065 are all sitting in the closet since I got the Luxman. IMO the sound of the Luxman has better tonal balance, nicer detail, and cleaner bass than any of my 70's receivers.

 

[ryuuoh]

High quality gear from the '70s onward shouldn't be discounted. As was mentioned, transistor amplifier development was an ongoing process. Distortion of various types were discovered, researched and dealt with as time passed. Gear to measure these distortions improved. Today's HI-Fi amps are perhaps better than ever, but they cost a ton of money. Top gear from the '70s up to the new millennium also sounds good, and is a bargain if you can fix them.

 

[My3kidsdad]

4000 prices just jumped 30-50% overnight.




I believe the manufacturers that were concerned with sound quality continued to build good and many times better gear till the late 70s as the knowledge base about the transistor increased. This is not the lesser build quality companies which have been mentioned already.

My first gear was purchased in 1970. I preferred much of the gear that was available when I was selling in 77-81 and the 70 gear was TOTL. The late 70s gear was considerably more expensive and different from a manufacturer.

Lol, they heard me gushing, eh? So your saying that what you pick, the model and features built in is more important than just saying this year or that?

 

[My3kidsdad]

I wouldn't be too hasty discounting the Luxman R-115. I picked up a R-113 a few months back and to tell you the truth it's now my favorite receiver. My Sansui 881, Pioneer SX-838, SX-3800, and Sony STR-7065 are all sitting in the closet since I got the Luxman. IMO the sound of the Luxman has better tonal balance, nicer detail, and cleaner bass than any of my 70's receivers.

Meeting a guy who knows how to repair and renew stereo equipment is kind of like finding a good mechanic- you want to treat him with respect. Well the guy who is renewing my R-115 is easy to talk to and seems passionate about the vintage gear he likes. He says the synthesized FM in theLuxman is worth listening to.

 

[My3kidsdad]

High quality gear from the '70s onward shouldn't be discounted. As was mentioned, transistor amplifier development was an ongoing process. Distortion of various types were discovered, researched and dealt with as time passed. Gear to measure these distortions improved. Today's HI-Fi amps are perhaps better than ever, but they cost a ton of money. Top gear from the '70s up to the new millennium also sounds good, and is a bargain if you can fix them.

So your saying good gear is good gear regardless of the year. That is probably true much of the time. I just happen to like the look of vintage gear over the newer stuff.

 

[ryuuoh]

Yes, good gear is good gear. The thing is, how worn out is it? Everything wears out. Particularly mechanical stuff like switches.

 

[ssmith3046]

I think it's too broad of a generalization to judge equipment on the year that it was manufactured. Too many different makes.

 

[Negotiableterms]

If you're looking for "best sound", there are some obvious questions:

First, why stick with a receiver? You could use the Pioneer you've got to run a power amp. For example, there's an Adcom 555-II in Bartertown (a Subscriber forum) right now that's within your apparent price range, and it is very likely to outperform all but a tiny group of receivers. Later, you can upgrade the preamp when budget allows.

Second, what are your speakers like? I'm not familiar with that Paradigm line, but they tend to make good stuff. If the speakers are bright, you'd want to match with warm electronics (Marantz-like, perhaps), if they're dark, you'd want to match with something different (Yamaha, perhaps). Your model doesn't have a midrange driver, so something with good presence might be helpful... or the opposite.

I'd avoid worrying about years, and focus on system matching and real bang for the buck.

 

[AnalogDigit]

There might be some truth to this. I purchase for $2.99 at a thrift an Allied model 426 AM/FM Stereo receiver from 1971. This thing is about as basic and BOTL as you can get. Just a power switch, volume, balance, bass and treble controls, a switch for AFC on and selector switch. That's it! Does not have a tape monitor switch, but it does have tape out jacks, ceramic/magnetic phono jacks with switch and aux input. Built in AM and FM antennas.

Thinking this will sound like a cheap Soundesign stereo, I was very surprised. Hooked up a turntable with a magnetic cartridge with some Realistic MC 600 speakers. Without any loudness it sounds great. Bass is full and tight, AM and FM sound very good. Found an Allied catalog, it is rated for 7.5 watts per channel, 40 Hz to 16 kHz, low Fi specs, but sounds good.