Weaning myself off the "loudness" button

[onwardjames]

I'm sure I'm not the first to 'graduate' as far as my listening tastes, but as my stack of equipment grows, I noticed I'm getting more and more finicky about my sound. Bear with me...

As a somewhat-ahead-of-the-curve teen, I went easy on the eq SCOOP that was so prevalent of my Gen X brethren. As I got older, I tended to forgo EQ use at all. Next was easing off the bass and treble knobs, unless absolutely necessary, and now THIS.....

Realize, with every amp I own, I have employed the loudness button. Whether it be my EW modded 9090db, my 20 years of happiness AU-G99X Sansui, even my Pioneer 1250 or 980, even those tricky variable loudness Yamaha's (CA-810, CR-1020), I used it.

Now I get a M-504 Onkyo, finally taking the Yamaha M60 out of rotation. Paired with the C-304 preamp, I was never happy with the Yamaha. Those of you who know the C-304, know it doesn't HAVE a loudness button. May have to give that M60 another shot.....

Anyway, one afternoon not too long ago, I was listening to Jeff Beck "Truth" on my Yamaha CDX-1100U, thru the Onkyo P-304/504, and into some Marantz Imperial 6's......

At first I thought the sound was shrill, bright...painful. Then as I listened, I noticed more and more detail, the sound of the PICK, switches, various studio noise...etc.

I was REALLY HEARING WHAT WAS GOING ON. Not some bassy, shiny boomy mess.

While I can't say I'm a total convert, I've started tinkering with turning the loudness off on my 9090db.

I don't know if I'm graduating to a higher listening experiece, or if I'm just crazy.

Ah well, the saga continues. Thanks to anyone who read all this. It used to be so simple....fire up my stereo, and rock out.

It's true....God lives in the midrange. (can't remember who said that...)

 

[ferninando]

there's not a dam thing wrong with louudness and tone controls. If you don;t like em you don;t have to use em. They serve a purpose if needed. Not everyone has golden ears.

 

[deeder7001]

I don't use my EQ much any more as well. I don't even have it hooked up. Same with the loudness button.

 

[JohnVF]

I used to like the loudness button before I really got into audio. Then I moved to larger full range speakers (often augmented by a sub for the very lowest octaves). I don't miss it at all anymore. I run either a tube pre or Yamaha pre without any tone controls in the signal path, or in the case of the Yamaha, bypassed. And the result is very "full". I don't know anybody who would consider it lacking in bass...it's just that I don't have to boost the mid-bass to seem like low bass.

Not that there's anything wrong with loudness. As my system stands now, though, it would probably drive me out of the room if I had it engaged. I learned to love crips, tight bass rather than big boomy bass.

 

[jetblack]

The loudness button is there if you need/want it. I learned a long time ago (from trial & error) that it's better to spend the money on more power, rather than an eq, unless you're really fond of the 'tone control'.

 

[Alex6969]

I use it at low volumes to give my music that extra "punch". I turn it off when I have it medium or high volumes.

 

[satterfi]

People will get used to what they hear and think that is what is should sound like.

In my opinion, a flat signal response should be the base point. I listen to that for a while and then change it to suit my taste. Usually turning on the loudness control suits me unless I'm listening at 85 db or higher and by then the loudness control isn't working much anyway.

SPL meters and software can really help you see what is going on with your system.

 

[terra1]

there's not a dam thing wrong with louudness and tone controls. If you don;t like em you don;t have to use em. They serve a purpose if needed. Not everyone has golden ears.

+1 :thmbsp:

There are no Loudness Police.

At low levels it can make the music more enjoyable. Turn it off because YOU want to, not because of the AAF - Audiophile Acceptance Factor.

Same goes for Tone and Balance controls. Even in an Owner's manual (I think Sansui) it says they are there for a purpose. We're talking vintage, things change with time. Room acoustics can vary. And some Loudness buttons do a better job than others without sounding boomy. I believe they are intended for use only at low volume levels.

I have to admit, I do have some invisible compulsion to keep the tones at 0 (even though adjusting them can make music sound better) and balance knob in the middle (even though I have some hearing loss in my left ear). Sometimes I'm tempted to change them, but then what would others think?

 

[ugornot]

Its all a matter of taste. I really go after well recorded media. If it is well recorded the engineer will get what he wants on the recording and if it is what I like and the system is adequate for getting that sound out, then the tone controls are not really needed. Loudness compensation is supposed to boost certain frequencies due to hearing deficiencies at LOW VOLUME. If you are using are using loudness at high volume levels then either your speakers are deficient or ... If that is the case perhaps some cerwin vegas should be in your future. When some people come over I never even show them the Infinities or Magnepans. I just crank up the D9s. Tastes vary!!!

 

[onepixel]

When I was a teen I had the loudness on and every dial on the tone control cranked all the way on my 8080DB.

Now I use the tone controls and EQ sparingly to replicated and bring out the natural sound of the individual intruments. The loudness works well when you're listening to music at lower levels. But that's just the way I like it.

 

[onwardjames]

I had 4 D-5's stacked, so I know CV power.

Sold them for next to nothing.

I wasn't meaning to insult anyone who uses the loudness, and for the most part, all my amps still have it engaged.

I don't think I have golden ears....I've actually lost quite a bit in my left from a shotgun blast (hunting accident...dumbass friend fired a 12 gauge right by my left ear) and chronic ear infections due to a slightly bent ear canal.

I love a loudness button at low volumes. All I was really trying to imply was that with the M-504, where a loudness button isn't present, actually took me awhile to like.

To get a mint, and I mean MINT, M-504 from your girlfriend, you wanna like it. At first I didn't cause of the 'loudness' thing. Now, I think it the most revealing amp I have, although not necessarily the first thing I turn on for a fun spin.

It's all good. Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen.

 

[getright99]

are you guys talking about only the loudness button being off, or the bass and treble knobs at zero with the loudness off as well? i'm listening to 'truth' right now with this setting, meaning loudness off and bass and treble at zero. i don't have 'truth' on vinyl but i'm listening through my ipod. it's definitely a new sound to me.

 

[cademan]

Tone controls are there to taylor to your ears. If a song was recorded in the studio to have a lot of low end, and you turn your bass control all the way down, then you're missing out on the way it was meant to be.

 

[similost]

Some of us don't have a loudness button so we don't have to stress over it..

 

[Kenny]

I too have reached an "Audio Compromise" of sorts with the old "Distortion Generator" over the years.I now use it primarily at low listening levels,like when I'm having a snooze,or with background low level Music when reading by the fireside on both my Eico ST-70/ST40 tube amps that have the 'Loudness Mod' performed.
Thats the only time on my two main most listened to systems.Defiantly don't need it on my Altecs at mid to higher volumes,lots of true bass/highs from those 15 inch woofers & horns!!
I have found with certain vintage integrated amplifiers/receivers that have an overall "brighter tone" in my opinion,newer(79+) Yamaha/Sansui's coming to mind,I kept the Loudness switch 'Off',if it has one & back the Treble off -2 and sometimes boost the Bass plus 1-2,or generally I leave it Flat.Of course it all of course depends on the system's source & speakers involved and usually its done in a matter of seconds.Vinyl always sounded best on these systems to me not cd's.
I am not a 'Twiddler'.I set either the Loudness or Tone controls and leave them.My ears tell me within about a minute what I want to achieve and I set it by ear,not by the controls as each manufactures settings usually sound different to me
Before our old Springer Spaniel passed away,he would leave the room if any distortion was presented.What does that tell you!!
In my opinion if you are constantly fiddling with the Loudness or the Tone controls, you have defiantly introduced unwanted,non-enjoyable,annoying distortion,and your ears are telling you when they are not happy with your choice!
Now when 'not' listening critically,say when I am working in the garage on the car doing maintenance I kinda like a 'Rockin Tone' happening in the background and put on the Loudness,or most usually chose instead to slightly boost Tone controls to suit my taste on whatever is playing on whatever receiver or integrated that ended up not being sold during the Summer garage sales.I find it is really only used with me to re-create the closest tone I can on it(not easy on many shit-sounding receivers) that closest resembles my main Altec/tube system which my main source of Ear Candy comes from.
I have found from experience at local garage sales that most folks have grown up with the Loudness always engaged as that seems to be the first thing they touch after the Volume control when listening.However when listening outside without any walls I too generally prefer it that way.
No room acoustics to contend with.
But for me anyways,when used during critical listening I find it highly irritating after about 60 seconds,unless its at barely audible sound up to very Low volume.Just my opinions,many folks will differ depending on their systems listening levels,ingrained habits,etc...Altec Concert Kenny

 

[grillebilly]

I use it at low volumes to give my music that extra "punch". I turn it off when I have it medium or high volumes.

Ditto

 

[ferninando]

loudness is there to compensate for the ear's inability to hear low and hi freqs at low volum levels. nothing more.
But sometimes it's nice to get abit of extra bass punch at mid volum.

 

[fropiler]

Same here.

When I was a teen I had the loudness on and every dial on the tone control cranked all the way on my 8080DB.

Now I use the tone controls and EQ sparingly to replicated and bring out the natural sound of the individual intruments. The loudness works well when you're listening to music at lower levels. But that's just the way I like it.

I'll take that a step further and add that most of my listening falls into the "lower levels" category. I'd wouldn't own a system without a loudness feature of some sort.

Fell in love with the Yamaha variable loudness feature on my trusty old r-5.

 

[thedelihaus]

...Turn it off because YOU want to, not because of the AAF - Audiophile Acceptance Factor.

Same goes for Tone and Balance controls. Even in an Owner's manual (I think Sansui) it says they are there for a purpose. We're talking vintage, things change with time. Room acoustics can vary....

I'm a fan of having the option of tone controls- for vintage, that means treble, bass and midrange, and for newer, treble and bass and possibly a few parametric style tweak-ability.

That said, I'm also a fan of running my pre amp tone controls flat. Rarely do I set 'em anywhere else- but I like having the option, and there will be recordings that need it.

And regarding the loudness button- something I haven't needed to use for years- and now it actually seems to hinder the music than help.

I'll attribute this to luck with gear matching, more-so than any allusions I have about golden hearing, on my part.

Tone controls are there to taylor to your ears. If a song was recorded in the studio to have a lot of low end, and you turn your bass control all the way down, then you're missing out on the way it was meant to be.

I dunno if I agree with that.

Lots of albums nowadays are "bumped" to run forward or hot- done for playback impact on radio, in the car, on an iPod compressed file.

Look at the Chili Peppers records. Or the backlash over the new Metallica, for two examples.

I think it's the studio folk who are missing out on the way it was meant to be.

People will get used to what they hear and think that is what is should sound like.

In my opinion, a flat signal response should be the base point. I listen to that for a while and then change it to suit my taste. Usually turning on the loudness control suits me unless I'm listening at 85 db or higher and by then the loudness control isn't working much anyway.

SPL meters and software can really help you see what is going on with your system.

This is something I'd like to experiment with. Any recommendations- software wise-to use with Apple?

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Out of all the loudness "schemes" I like Harman Kardon's solution: the contour button. The effect is greatest at the lowest volume setting, but lessens until it has no effect at 12 o'clock.
I used to only listen with loudness on, but I have picked up better speakers since then that have good bass even with controls all set at 0.