What DAC Sounds Like Vinyl, Better Value than Audio Note, Under $5K used?

I had an AudioNote Dac 1.x for years. The impedance issues with solid state are real. But in a sympathetic tube-based system it was very nice. That said, there wasn't a ton of difference between it and my Sony SCD777ES, when the later was using using the non-oversampling output filter option. The more expensive Audio Note dacs are very, very good, but tend to be used with SET amps and high efficiency speakers, so it's hard to get an apples to apples comparison, unless you have similar tastes in system building.

I haven't listened to expensive DACs in years; my two favorites - last auditioned a decade ago - where the Sonic Frontiers Dac 1 and the Audio Aero dac - both used tube output output stages, but "modern" chipsets. Both turn up on Audiogon periodically.

This thread is several years old, but you have largely hit the nail on the head. System Synergy and it is my view that you're far better off listening to complete systems - finding ones that stand against everything else - then buy the entire system. I have heard all of my speakers on different gear and get strikingly different (good bad and atrocious) depending.

I am building an all Audio Note system so the DAC 3.1x Balanced makes more sense for a buyer like myself than just a standard one size fits all decision. The reason for this is the same designers design the DAC and the transport and the amplifiers and the speakers - and they use the same parts and overall design theory throughout. A non oversampling, non error correcting DAC for example is an analogous design as their SET amplifiers. SET amps have no global feedback (thus no active error correction). So in theory you have a CD player that reads the disc once only - does nothing to that signal - no noise shaping or processing and sends that one read to the R2R Ladder DAC and that's it. The SET amp does the same takes a signal makes it louder and doesn't correct anything and then feed it back through the circuits. Their speakers are similar as well in that they don't attempt to store sound in the box but to release the energy as fast as possible with the notion that it can be released fast enough to not smear the sound. Whereas a heavily damped cabinet that most of the rest of the industry utilizes stores unwanted energy in the box to linger - usually creating a more boxy and less lively presentation - and even the turntables and arms are of the release energy down the arm and out of the chassis with light platters over very heavy energy storing platters.

This isn't to say the total opposite to the above can't work - but it's generally easier to not be forcing square pegs down round holes. In an AN system the AN digital makes a bunch of sense - and they MAY work well in other systems - but they were not intended for those and I've heard them sound rather not good in non AN systems. There is a certain logic if the preamp and amp use Silver Litz wiring and black gate caps and AN's own hand made transformers resisters and caps that the CD player/transport/DAC are also using those exact same wires, caps, resisters and transformers. And if the speaker's voice coil is also wound with the same silver wire and caps are also the same. But let's face it most of us can't afford to do all this stuff.

Still I think it's a pretty good plan to keep things together that make some sense - if you like SET amps you buy speakers designed for them - big ole horns or single drivers - not Apogee Scintilla or most 5 driver floorstanders with 84dB sensitivity and 2 ohm loads.

The nice thing about the 502CA is that it has both SS and Tube selection at the press of a button that can be changed during play. So in a certain respect it is more adaptable to a lot of different stereo systems. In mine however it is tube all the way and unless it is to show people why tubes are awesome it's never going to put back into SS mode. HOWEVER, in a different set-up perhaps the SS mode will sound best - a lot of people prefer the SS mode of the MiniMax DAC in SS and disliked that unit's tube mode. So back to synergy.
 
This thread is several years old, but you have largely hit the nail on the head. System Synergy and it is my view that you're far better off listening to complete systems - finding ones that stand against everything else - then buy the entire system. I have heard all of my speakers on different gear and get strikingly different (good bad and atrocious) depending.

I am building an all Audio Note system so the DAC 3.1x Balanced makes more sense for a buyer like myself than just a standard one size fits all decision. The reason for this is the same designers design the DAC and the transport and the amplifiers and the speakers - and they use the same parts and overall design theory throughout. A non oversampling, non error correcting DAC for example is an analogous design as their SET amplifiers. SET amps have no global feedback (thus no active error correction). So in theory you have a CD player that reads the disc once only - does nothing to that signal - no noise shaping or processing and sends that one read to the R2R Ladder DAC and that's it. The SET amp does the same takes a signal makes it louder and doesn't correct anything and then feed it back through the circuits. Their speakers are similar as well in that they don't attempt to store sound in the box but to release the energy as fast as possible with the notion that it can be released fast enough to not smear the sound. Whereas a heavily damped cabinet that most of the rest of the industry utilizes stores unwanted energy in the box to linger - usually creating a more boxy and less lively presentation - and even the turntables and arms are of the release energy down the arm and out of the chassis with light platters over very heavy energy storing platters.

This isn't to say the total opposite to the above can't work - but it's generally easier to not be forcing square pegs down round holes. In an AN system the AN digital makes a bunch of sense - and they MAY work well in other systems - but they were not intended for those and I've heard them sound rather not good in non AN systems. There is a certain logic if the preamp and amp use Silver Litz wiring and black gate caps and AN's own hand made transformers resisters and caps that the CD player/transport/DAC are also using those exact same wires, caps, resisters and transformers. And if the speaker's voice coil is also wound with the same silver wire and caps are also the same. But let's face it most of us can't afford to do all this stuff.

Still I think it's a pretty good plan to keep things together that make some sense - if you like SET amps you buy speakers designed for them - big ole horns or single drivers - not Apogee Scintilla or most 5 driver floorstanders with 84dB sensitivity and 2 ohm loads.

The nice thing about the 502CA is that it has both SS and Tube selection at the press of a button that can be changed during play. So in a certain respect it is more adaptable to a lot of different stereo systems. In mine however it is tube all the way and unless it is to show people why tubes are awesome it's never going to put back into SS mode. HOWEVER, in a different set-up perhaps the SS mode will sound best - a lot of people prefer the SS mode of the MiniMax DAC in SS and disliked that unit's tube mode. So back to synergy.

Thanks for the friendly quote. I'll just add that the WORST digital I've ever heard - on a par with using a $19.94 DVD player as a digital source, was the DCS Elgar "stack." It was demoed at a famous dealer in Manhatten, in a system with a VAC Avatar integrated and Proac Futura speakers. Glassy, hard, amusical ... I honestly believe it was broken.

My point, and I do have one, is nothing beats hearing components in the context of a full system. If you're thinking about adding one to yours, audition from a dealer who'll let you try it at home - or buy used at a price that lets you resell without taking a hit.
 
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Time to re start this thread . I just purchased a Audio Note DAC 3.1x Balanced . My previous DACs Were a Schiit Yggdrasil 1 & a Metrum Octave .
The AN DAC has closed the gap of performance to my vinyl set up . The detail is all there without the harsh edge . I am totally satisfied by what I am hearing
 
You want something that sounds like vinyl, use vinyl. It is not accurate. That is the thing about a DAC, garbage in garbage out, with vinyl not so much.

I do use vinyl and enjoy it very much . I have a lot of music and little room for more records . I don't care about accurate I care about what sounds good too me and that's all that maters
I see you are one of those people that rather be right then happy .
 
Did the OP get something that satisfied? did I miss that post?

This is my aim ATM, I don't think I'll ever replicate it exactly, so instead I'm simply aiming for the best approximation of . analogue like sound I can get with a digital source. Based on an old Philips TDA1541 player, and have gotten a lot of things I missed by taking the signal from the exit of the first opamps in the output stage, with quality copper foil caps after that, next will be the decoupling caps around the chip to upgrade, this should open the sound up more and that is something that is lacking when compared to my previous TT set up, which was a Sansui SR-838 recapped with the signal lead replaced with better and extra vibration control for the arm/Thorsten's EAR modified circuit with Jupiter copper wax caps and other improvements using 6SL7 Melz tubes/Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge.

There are some great examples of this from highly modified players, and of course DACs like from AN, the LampizatOr one shown earlier, one called the 'Killer DAC' from a group of enthusiasts and one simply referred to as PDX DAC....there are likely more unheard of I suspect. Often these examples employ R2R DAC chips or Multi-bit DAC chips, and often tube output stages.....even valve rectified power supplies.

I have a way to go yet with my CD player (but it has already come a long way) It's fun and that is what this hobby is supposed to be, fun! and for pleasure :)
 
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I’m sure the op has already gotten a dac since his original post 5 years ago but I’ll add to this post on my experience.

I worked on getting my analog rig dialed in properly before I began on my digital side so I had a very good understanding of what a proper analog sound to my ears were. So when I started on my digital side there was quite a bit of fine tuning before I got it right. When I added my Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Dac is when I finally experienced the smooth analog sound that my TT gave me , it was the icing on the cake and when I found the right cables to pair with it , it was the cherry on top . The Tri-Vista uses a Burr Brown DSD 1792A 24/192 and uses 4 Raytheon 5703 tubes for the output stage and the sound is nothing short of breathtaking.

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Audiofreak71
 
my 2c in this old thread

Am surprised the delivery (transports or computers) of the 000111000 werent much of a topic

Transports can really shape the sound before the DAC -- IMO. I once did not believe this as much as I do now

Of course the files matter the most maybe ?

As far as 'vinyl sounding' DACs... My guess would be ones using Wolfson WM8741 Chips
 
my 2c in this old thread

Am surprised the delivery (transports or computers) of the 000111000 werent much of a topic

Transports can really shape the sound before the DAC -- IMO. I once did not believe this as much as I do now

Of course the files matter the most maybe ?

As far as 'vinyl sounding' DACs... My guess would be ones using Wolfson WM8741 Chips

I agree 100 % I use a audio over IP and a Mutec MC3 + USP as a re clocker . I have used this set up with other DACs so the transport was a constant in my impressions of the Audio Note DAC 3,1X
a AD 1865 chip based DAC
 
The only DAC I've used which actually surpasses my vinyl rig (which cost about 20x more) is a Muji Studio DAC II which utilizes a Philips TDA1541A R1, 4x NE5532 OPAMPS and 2x NOS Phillips 12AX7 tubes.

It was very nice though the magic only came in replacing the NE5532 with DIP8 sockets and rolling in 2x Burson V5i-D and 2x Burson V6-D Vivid OPAMPS. I also switched to a TDA1541 S1 HHH chip. Performance is just spectacular.
 
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