What is the future of FM/terrestrial radio?

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

HD Radio is a flop! That's right, a flop! 5 years into it and we have 2 affordable component tuners! No portables. Some selection of expensive table radios. In East Tennessee, we have 2 HD FM stations and no AM stations running HD. HD Radio sounds like a low bit rate MP3 file (and that's with no HD2 channels). Many stations will have to spend over $1,000,000 in conversion costs to do HD. With the costs and the fact that only the strongest signal listeners will be able to get HD at home with an outside antenna, the rationale isn't there. Most radio groups are not running HD AM anywhere due to interference issues. Analog FM will not be obsoleted by HD Radio in my lifetime. Our stations can be easily converted to HD Radio if this situation changes. That's if it does. 2 of our 3 public radio stations turned down NPR grant money to go HD after seeing the poor results of the first one.

 

[thunderroad]

Wow! It looks like this thread has really gotten rolling since the last time I looked in! After reading the posts made since I last posted, it seems to me that this discussion has centered pretty much on a digital radio vs. analog FM discussion. Personally, I don't own a digital radio and probably won't for a long time to come, but the technology is out there and the market for it is growing fast. Witness the satisfied customers of XM and Sirius radio!

But, having said that, I think the biggest influence on broadcast (analog or digital) radio in the future won't necessarily be the new technology, but the legal battles that are currently being waged in the courts. The copyright fights over peer-to-peer music downloaders and Internet radio seems to be broadening into the broadcast radio market now. Music copyright holders are now making the argument that AM/FM broadcasting is a form of music privacy. See this link for more details: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/06/recording-indus.html

I suspect what they might be doing is laying the foundation for going after digital broadcasting as a form of music downloading by folks who "tape" the broadcast signals. After all, a digital copy of digitally broadcast music could theoretically become an exact copy of the original CD. Of course the existing digital broadcasting technology probably doesn't deliver this level of performance, but as the technology matures, who knows? Wouldn't this make a digital broadcast a music download source? :scratch2:

 

[ke4cij]

Pbs

I saw something relating to this on PBS, Katrina put the screws on the big Sat companies taking over radio. The FCC and local and State folks saw right fast Sat Companies could offer very little in the way of emergencies. The need fo over the air Radio proved its need and purpose. That said I doubt we'll be seeing AM or FM leave any times soon! Besides that MFG's should be forced to buy back or replace your radio with updated equipment. Another thing to consider the airways belong to the public not the FCC or US Government or for that matter any government or corporation. Pay radio is like pay tv it should be illegal and was till just a few years ago. If you look at the FCC act of 1937 you can see proof. Those laws got changed in that past 20 to 30 years, because of greedy corporations and idiot law makers.

 

[thunderroad]

I feel the same way about pay radio and television that you do, but unfortunately I'm afraid they are both here to stay. IMHO FM radio done properly is capable of great fidelity and sound! :thmbsp: Back in the late '60s and early '70s, when I first started listening to FM radio, we had some really outstanding FM stations here in the Bay Area. The ones that come to mind for me were KKHI, our classical station and KMPX, a free form rock station. Both had outstanding sound quality with good clean sound, an impressive dynamic range, all against an absolutely black silent background. There were others too and, as I remember all delivered great sound!

Then it changed and the AM radio razzle-dazzle complete with its fast-talking DJs, and idiot-minded commericals and jingles moved to the FM band and it all went to Hell. I think a lot of the blame is Congress's and the FCC's for deregulating the air waves. When they dumped the format and content Standards/regulations everything became all about money, big money and what we have now is the result. Dozens of stations with the exact same content and format using "shock-jocks" or other gimmicks to win audience.

I agree that both AM and FM radio will be around a long time, but what will the program content be? What scares me about all this legal fighting over copyrights and royalities is that broadcasters everywhere; Internet, digital, or analog could ultimately be forced to pay a royality everytime they play a piece of music. How would the existing free AM/FM radio stations pay these fees? More commericals? Wow! I don't think that would work here because on our local stations there is a huge number of ads now! Any more and there isn't much room left for content! Sooner or later listeners will just turn the radio off! :thumbsdn: So what does that leave as royality-free program content? All talk radio? No thanks!

These new legal challenges have the possiblity of becoming the neutron-bomb of the radio industry (i.e. the stations are still there, but the content is all gone!). Believe me, I sure hope I'm wrong! All I want to do is listen to quality broadcast music and have a nice variety of content available! :yes: Is that asking so much?

 

[electroking]

... Another thing to consider the airways belong to the public not the FCC or US Government or for that matter any government or corporation. ...

I do agree with you on this, so please explain to me how it came to be that
the public would allow the authorities to "auction off blocks of frequencies to
corporate users". Maybe (just my two cents' worth) with promises of
lowered income taxes...

Moderator, please help us steer away from politics!

 

[ke4cij]

I hate to say this

The public doesn't listen most of the time and sadly don't bother to care even when it hits them in the pockets. As long as the public has Air, TV and Games and a Car to burn up gas in then they don't care.

It's just like right now, with gas. The prices of gas isn't high because of demand like we are being told. The prices of gas is high because some greedy speculators are playing Enron all over again and getting by it. Call me crazy but if you listen to shortwave radio as much as I do and listen to what people from other countries say. News, Hams and talk radio. You can pick the truth out. Again sadly people are not listening to what is the truth and they believe the very ones who do this to them. China and India have been hitting fuel for years and coming on stronger and stronger. My question is if it's China and India at fault because gas prices are soaring then why Did It happen just suddenly? It should by all rights been going up all the time! Not all at once!

The fact is it's a scam and it's a way to drive the price of everything through the roof! E85 is causing Food to soar and because Gas is high everything else is going sky high!

What about all those CHEAP GOODS they promised when they gave all our factories and jobs away? SCAM!

I hate to say it but the public has ignored our governments take over by corporations to the point its coming back to haunt them 10 fold and things will get worse until men act like men and take back our government from the elite and corporations.


Just my take...

Sorry if I step on someones ideals of government

But listen to the truth because if you listen even the tress are telling us things are wrong and we need to fix them!


Something else they keep from you is how simple it is to make a Hybrid out of your car...simple indeed, you can make browns gas or HHO with your own cars electrical system. It sure makes a difference in milage that is a fact...Seen it working and testing...cost about $60 bucks to make the stuff you need!

 

[nitrous]

FM radio

IMHO FM radio done properly is capable of great fidelity and sound! :thmbsp: Back in the late '60s and early '70s, when I first started listening to FM radio, we had some really outstanding FM stations here in the Bay Area. The ones that come to mind for me were KKHI, our classical station and KMPX, a free form rock station. Both had outstanding sound quality with good clean sound, an impressive dynamic range, all against an absolutely black silent background. There were others too and, as I remember all delivered great sound!

I still have reel to reel tapes of recordings that I made off the air of the NYC "underground format" FM stations in the late 60s that sound as good as any recordings I have ever heard. When I play these tapes for ppl today, they think it is a pristine vinyl LP or a current "live" digital recording. To me, it bests all media.

 

[nitrous]

I do agree with you on this, so please explain to me how it came to be that the public would allow the authorities to "auction off blocks of frequencies to corporate users". Maybe (just my two cents' worth) with promises of lowered income taxes...

As merrylander previously cited, the cell phone companies successfully lobbied and agreed to pony up countless millions/billions of $$ to have the FCC steal away frequencies used by the public (eg, Ham radio operators) and VHF TV stations. The FCC will be handing some of those frequencies back to local municipal police & fire departments for emergency services.

The only entity which seems to be opposing & fighting the corporations is the ARRL (the national association for amateur radio.) Ironically, ham radio operators were the ones who discovered and developed the use of these frequencies, only to have them taken away by the federal government and handed over to big business for big $$$. So, what else is new?

 

[ke4cij]

American Radio Relay League

Yes Amateur Radio played a huge part making Frequencies usable and working out equipment and antennas to use them. The FCC or as I call it the Funded Corporate Creeps and The ARRL IMHO have let the public down. One, both have really contributed to the dumbing down of Amateur Radio. At one time you really needed to know your stuff concerning basic electronics, antennas and you needed to be able to send and receive morse code. Today the tests are much easier and no code is required. Why? Supposedly to get new blood interested in radio and communications. In the past Amateur Radio wanted the best and brightest people involved and needed them for experimentation. Today it seems more like a CB radio and hardly a ham could even tell you what a transistor was or what it's used for. The Government lost interests in Amateur Radio and have allowed us to become our own police force. The FCC hardly ever steps in when we have troubles with bad operators. That's sad! You have some idiots that get behind a microphone and act like a 2 year old on Drugs or worse. You have others that think they can play WC*XYZ and become a broadcast station!

Fact is, I think alot of this is being done to destroy Amateur Radio so the government can say Hey These Frequencies are being wasted by a bunch of drunk idiots so WHY don't we Sale them off to the highest bidders. And that folks is exactly what they are doing!



I no longer have any reel to reel equipment just because of lack of space. My dad had some really nice reel equipment he brought home from Germany back in the late 50's early 60's. I wish I had it now! Talk about some really great audio and music recordings! I found a reel to reel at a flea market some years ago and brought it home only to discover it couldn't be repaired by me or anyone else. Seems someone decided to remove some of the parts inside among a few other things so it hit the dump. I saved the reels and what tapes it had. But I guess they have gone some place now as its been years ago.


FM and hopefully AM will be around a long time just so People will listen! Sat Radio is coming along but if you don't pay for it and listen to regular old fashioned radio and then recommend all your friends do the same then hopefully we can keep Pay Radio out of our future. The stations need listeners and the more they have the better! If they have people listening then they will have decent programming!

 

[Mattwizz3]

I'm pretty sure that at one stage they were planning to cut analogue TV transmission sometime this year, thats what I heard in 2000 anyways. Although I was 12 at the time and may have my info wrong. All my TV's are still goin and we dont have digital and dont see the need for it. I tried to set it up but could only get reception for one channel and the picture was the same as the analogue broadcast so we didn't bother.

As for AM and FM at least here in Australia they are gonna stick around for a long time yet. Digital and satellite radio is almost unheard of, I dont know of a single person who has it or even where you'd go to get it. I dont get why AM radio stations still exist, I can listen to it in my car (nothing much worth listening to) but if I want to use.. say.. the accelerator pedal, all I get is junk. Especially when going up hills and the motor is working hard, or if by some chance there is a power line near by, or someones phone, or windscreen wipers are going, or the car is moving, or if you move your left index finger 3mm to the right etc etc.

If I was to listen to it at home its stupidly sensitive to interference and pretty much cant do or use anything if I wanted to hear anything remotely legible. I guess AM would have been fine in its day because there would have been a lot less interference. But these days, to be honest I believe its just utter crap.

OK.. my rant is done. Feel free to disagree.:yes:

 

[ke4cij]

Am?

AM is far from being crap if you have some time to invest and learn something! LoL!

AM stations are best heard in the night time and if you like Dx'ing then AM is the place to be! What sounds to be more of a problem than AM itself is an antenna problem and your hearing alternator whine from your engine. Sounds like you have a lesser quality radio or have some need for some filtering. You can get a cheap filter to do away with engine nosie at a Radio Shack or some place that offers electronic parts. AM also needs a good antenna and most cars don't offer such. AM by nature needs a good antenna and listening to in the night time due to the Frequencies it operates on. I live in NC, USA and I listen to stations all over the states and from as far away as Canada and further on a good night. I get great signals and enjoy some really great music and talk radio and on occasion get to listen to old time radio stories beaming out of NY. (not sure they are still doing that) But if you learn a little about Radio and are willing to invest a little time and get a proper AM set, build yourself an antenna based upon frequency. You can find out AM can offer a lot of enjoyment and fun for listeners.

Night time and AM go hand and hand and you can have a lot of fun! When I was in Japan I had a blast with my shortwave on AM bands and listening to all the stations you could get in that part of the world! WOW!

 

[lyfguard1]

If you can take an HD Radio second channel with separate programming from the main, and re-broadcast it on an analogue fm translator, then you could effectively double the amount of analogue stations you have on the dial. It's amazing how well a 250 watt translator can cover an area, on the right mountain top. You don't always need 100,000 watts. Often times the multipath of high powered stations creates nightmares with bouncing off of hills and mountains, but you keep the power high so you can have a bigger effective area of coverage. I wouldn't count out the value of HD radio just yet.

 

[ke4cij]

Don't think anyone is counting out any form of radio!

I don't think anyone is counting out HD Radio or any other form of radio for that matter.

 

[Rotoplooker]

Interesting discussion. I have been watching since I started this thread and although it seems to have taken a turn from the original intent of the post, I have learned a lot from it.

For the record, I am about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha CT-810. A good start, I think, to enter the wonderful world of radio.

 

[ron-c]

CT810 is a nice tuner. Get a good antenna for the best results.

thanks,
Ron-C

 

[djv8ga]

Night time and AM go hand and hand and you can have a lot of fun! When I was in Japan I had a blast with my shortwave on AM bands and listening to all the stations you could get in that part of the world! WOW!

Yes...I love to DX with my Sony 2010 shortwave too. The little Sony is flat out amazing.

 

[Tullman]

The copyright fights over peer-to-peer music downloaders and Internet radio seems to be broadening into the broadcast radio market now. Music copyright holders are now making the argument that AM/FM broadcasting is a form of music privacy. See this link for more details:

If this is true Music copyright holders are shooting themselves in the foot. Radio airplay makes the music industry go. I can't imagine any music artist or band not wanting radio airplay or making it expensive or difficult for radio airplay. People hear new music on the radio and then go and purchase said music via any format desired. I know I purchased plenty of music after hearing it on the radio.

In Boston, WEEI AM Sports radio talk is #1 in the market. There are several other popular AM stations in Boston, as well.

I don't think AM/FM radio will go away if the government doesn't take it away. There is still plenty of money to be made in radio and as mentioned earlier in this thread there are millions of analogue radios out there.

 

[1948epiphone]

FM broadcast won't go away anytime soon. Fear that it is doomed spring from the digital only TV edict that takes effect next year. By doing away with analogue TV, the FCC opened up tons of bandspace for other commercial ventures. The entire FM band takes up the room of one TV channel. There would not be much to gain by forcing FM broadcasters to go digital. Its going to be around a while. Buy a nice tuner and stop worrying.

 

[electroking]

FM broadcast won't go away anytime soon. Fear that it is doomed spring from the digital only TV edict that takes effect next year. By doing away with analogue TV, the FCC opened up tons of bandspace for other commercial ventures. The entire FM band takes up the room of one TV channel. There would not be much to gain by forcing FM broadcasters to go digital. Its going to be around a while. Buy a nice tuner and stop worrying.

Agreed, but let's make that three to four channels (88 to 108 MHz is
20 MHz)...

But the FCC took away 2 MHz from the 1-1/3 meter amateur band,
which was only 5 MHz wide to begin with (220-225 MHz, now 222-225),
so you never know...

 

[backmd]

Pbs

I saw something relating to this on PBS, Katrina put the screws on the big Sat companies taking over radio. The FCC and local and State folks saw right fast Sat Companies could offer very little in the way of emergencies. The need fo over the air Radio proved its need and purpose. That said I doubt we'll be seeing AM or FM leave any times soon! Besides that MFG's should be forced to buy back or replace your radio with updated equipment. Another thing to consider the airways belong to the public not the FCC or US Government or for that matter any government or corporation. Pay radio is like pay tv it should be illegal and was till just a few years ago. If you look at the FCC act of 1937 you can see proof. Those laws got changed in that past 20 to 30 years, because of greedy corporations and idiot law makers.

Or because of greedy law makers and idiot corporations