What qualifies as "LED upgrade" on Marantz 22xx receivers?

Discussion in 'Marantz Audio' started by MBuras, Apr 20, 2017.

?

What qualifies to be called a LED upgrade on Marantz 22xx receivers?

  1. Just replace the main display bulbs. No one will notice.

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. Alright. I'll include the meter bulb(s) as well as the main display

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Heck, while I'm in there I'll throw in the stereo indicator bulbs

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  4. Well now that we're going this far I might as well include the function indicator bulbs

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I'm only satisfied with everything being replaced and this includes the station indicator bulb

    16 vote(s)
    72.7%
  1. MBuras

    MBuras Restoration is an Addiction Subscriber

    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    I recently ran across a 2230 that was advertised as "LED upgrade" but when I got into it only the main display fuse lamps were changed. In my world this doesn't deserve to be called LED upgrade and I was a little disappointed because I thought I could save some $$$ on the restoration. Oh well.

    For the record I replace all bulbs with LED's or disclaim the ones I don't. How bout you?

    -Mike
     
  2. biscuithead

    biscuithead Me likes the eargasm retroplasm... Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,506
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    hmm...
    Tough one.
    I never replace the Stereo indicator with an LED.
    I think accuracy in advertising should be represented as this : "LED Upgrade" : Main display lamps changed to LEDs, new incandescent lamps in X area, and all others left original and working".
    Otherwise, there is a lot of interpretations... always ask specifics.
    But any person worth their while will replace everything in a just acquired unit. For the $$$ it is worth the pom.
     
  3. restorer-john

    restorer-john Super Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    Location:
    Australia
    If you are going to change a receiver over to LED, you do them all. No half arsed jobs. Also, provide written details of the LEDs and any modifications made to the series resistors etc.

    Careful colour temp selection and illumination levels are vitally important.

    We all know, the receiver manufacturers would have used LEDs without a doubt in the early-mid 70s if they had a full colour range and decent luminous efficacy. Sadly, they didn't. We had red, orange, yellow and green only and they were very low brightness compared to modern LEDs. Blue and subsequently every other colour came in 1990s.
     
  4. wlhd1610

    wlhd1610 Penny and her new friend Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    upstate new york
    A full restoration includes a full LED conversion.
    Why take a chance shipping back a fully restored unit to a client only to have a incandescent lamp filament break in shipping.

    Bob
     
  5. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Burleson, TX
    I agree with the above. All or nothing.
     
  6. thxdave

    thxdave Lava Lamp repairman Subscriber

    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Florida
    I wimped out on my 2275 rebuild re: lighting. I did the tuner dial, meter units and the tuner pointer light. All the panel source lights were still functional so I decided to change them once any of them fail. I guess I was also a little paranoid that I'd burn a hole in the tuner string.
     
  7. Dearslayer

    Dearslayer AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    506
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Interesting topic as I just pulled off the plastic dial to replace the vellum and fuse style lamps on the 2230 I'm recapping and figured that the function indicator lights were burnt out only to find no Lights there at all. They are all missing. Looks like someone made a bad attempt at trying to remove them and never replaced them. The solder pad on the one on the far right is lifted. There is also what looks like a resistor maybe ( white on the far right ) that's not attached to anything on one end. I must also admit I've never replaced the function bulbs with LED before so now I guess I'm gonna have to figure it out.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. wlhd1610

    wlhd1610 Penny and her new friend Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    upstate new york
    Gary ,the function lights are easy.

    I use 2 red leds(they're in series on the 2230/2245/2270)for the stereo illumination.
    Get them from Digikey.

    Bob
     
  9. Dearslayer

    Dearslayer AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    506
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Is there a thread on AK that show how this is done that you know of. I haven't tried YouTube yet for info. That's my next step. The lifted solder pad is also gonna be a challenge.

    Sorry I will post a new thread. Don't want to hijack this one.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Oscar23

    Oscar23 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    I've found normally when something is advertised with "led upgrade" it's done by someone who does not have a clue. Its almost always just the main lights that they can get to no problem. This does not make it an upgrade you just fixed the lights that were burnt out IF you are going to "upgrade" do it all
     
  11. MBuras

    MBuras Restoration is an Addiction Subscriber

    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    Once you have the light bar out it's pretty simple soldering the new bulbs in. That resistor looks interesting. Usually they're a color banded 1/2 watt 18-ohm carbon comp but maybe it's a late model change or someone's been in there. it attaches to the post just below with the green wire feeding the main display bulbs. Hardest part is final soldering of that resistor without burning the tuning cord. Creative use of aluminum foil, thin sheet metal or other burn proof thin products wedged between the cord and your soldering iron helps.
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  12. MBuras

    MBuras Restoration is an Addiction Subscriber

    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    Thanks for all the responses. Glad I could create an interesting topic. :rockon:
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  13. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Burleson, TX
    Once I get to the front of the unit, I usually tape the string to the main pulley and drop it down. I can then get to the back of the bi-pin bulbs with my desoldering gun. Two quick sucks and the bulb will pull out the front of the case with a hemostat. Slip a new LED bi-pin in place with hemostat and solder. It takes about 15-20 minutes to replace all of them. It's a little tedious with all of the wires around, but I haven't destroyed anything yet. Randy at irebuildmarantz.com sells a bulb kit with two red bi-pin bulbs and all of the white ones you need. I'm sure member dgwojo does also.
    Steve
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  14. SaturationPt

    SaturationPt AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    N.E. Indiana
    I have issue with the word "upgrade" in it at all. To me it is a preference, not an upgrade.

    If the LEDs do not light the scale evenly (many don't), it is not an upgrade.
    If the LEDs change the color significantly, it is clearly a matter of preference.
    If the LEDs are flickering (no power-supply change) it is IMO a downgrade.

    I prefer the incandescent bulb look, a new set and good housing and you're good for a decade or more (remember these are now 40-years old) before you should have any trouble. Mine all have been re-lamped with original (including one that was LED).

    A quick scan of evilbay and you will see that the high-dollar units are usually black-face converted with LEDs. Occasionally an all-original excellent condition unit will hit the high point. A matter of taste.
     
    sx1010JBL, MBuras and Steven Tate like this.
  15. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,758
    Location:
    Burleson, TX
    I agree. It is definitely a preference thing. A year ago, I was on the fence and routinely replaced the lamps with new incandescents. But I tried LED's of different colors and finally decided I like the cool white look over the incandescent. But a fresh set of incandescents certainly keep the original look of the unit. Upgrade is probably the wrong word. It really should be called a modification.
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  16. patfont

    patfont AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,959
    Location:
    South Jersey
    FWIW for the bi-pins I desolder 1 pad, then heat the other and just pull out, because I don't have 3 hands. Then to install just heat that pad and push through, that holds it so you can do the other side, then go back and reflow the other, easy!
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  17. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Great topic MBurras! A little more involved than people might think but lighting is always in interesting topic. And as always, I have a few "cents" to offer. I only entered the hobby 6 months ago but lighting is one of the first areas that garnered my attention since I sell commercial LED fixtures for all lighting applications; both exterior and interior. I set forth to determine color temperature that best accommodates my preference. Both Steven and Randy have been very helpful with sourcing and I've purchased lights from both Randy and dgwojo. Randy was very helpful and after much discussion, sent me all four sets (including bi-pins); original incandescent, Warm White LED's, Cool White LEDs, and Blue LEDs so I could evaluate my preference.

    Warm White LEDs
    I anticipated the original color temp of the incandescent lamps to be somewhere between 2800K and 3000K, which should have been the same color temp of the warm white LEDs - and it was; I recently pulled the original meter lamps out of my 2265 and replaced them with the warm white LEDs and was pleasantly surprised to find the color equal to the original lamps so, if my goal is to restore to original factory cosmetics, warm white is the choice.

    Cool White LEDs
    I replaced the same meter lights with the "cool white" LEDs (est. 4500-5000K color temp). This color temp is typically what most consumers are familiar (the LED look) with and expecting when they replace shop lights and various other lights around the house). This color temp provides much more blue output than standard incandescent lamps and is the most common for retail and commercial lighting. When I replaced the meter lamps with these, the meters really "popped" with a greater saturation of blue from the entire meter panel. I really liked the results of these just as Steven indicated. Yes, it takes one farther from the original look but it's not an astronomical leap. Again, simply a matter of preference but as many of you have stated - not really an upgrade as far as the performance of the unit.

    Blue LEDs
    I'm not really going to spend much time on this and I'm not sure of the color temp but for the sake of brevity, IMO the blue was simply far too much and made the unit look like a toy. The nomenclature on the meters also became less noticeable.

    Upgrade or Preference
    I think it's really a matter of perspective as to what one decides to call these modifications. If our perspective is "lighting performance" then yes, I would say using the term "upgrade" is appropriate as you are installing components that both run cooler and last longer. Unfortunately most people considering this term will tend to apply it to the overall performance of the unit, in this regard, using the term "upgrade" can be a little deceiving. And while they certainly consume far less energy, you are typically adapting them to run off of the same supply voltage as the incandescent lamps; therefore, there is no benefit gained by their increased efficiency. I guess if you actually modified the unit so that the 8v supply could be reduced to 2-3v (reducing the stress on the power supply) it would improve our position with respect to the term "upgrade," however, the gain in efficiency by reducing 5v of supply voltage, would likely not result in any tangible audible performance enhancement.

    Again, great topic and always interesting. Sorry for the length of this post but I enjoy discussing lighting and hearing everyone's opinion. And it certainly is a matter of opinion. I really consider myself more of a purist and will likely stay with the "warm white" colors. I just "relamped" a Yamaha CR1000 and sourced some "cool white" LEDs from dgwojo with green condoms. Once again, everyone reflects on the Yammies as having the "greenish" color to them but when I installed the green condoms, it was far too much green IMO, just as the blue LEDs for Marantz units. I noticed that the Yammie had something already built into their meter housing that caused the original incandescent lamps to provide a yellowish/greenish tint. I removed the condoms and the unit looked 100x better and original IMO.
     
  18. rBuckner

    rBuckner Luv 2 Restore Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,879
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    To go further, I lay my soldering iron tip over so that it hits both pads and just pull the bulb out in one shot. Of course that's using needlenose pliers!
     
    MBuras likes this.
  19. rBuckner

    rBuckner Luv 2 Restore Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,879
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Nice summary on LED lighting colors there 'Faz'. I agree totally with your assessments. I've mentioned it before but all, or at least most, white LEDs use the same chemistry crystal as blue LEDs. They are coated with a phosphor or phosphor compound that gets excited by the blue light to provide the yellow component. Even warm white LEDs have a "dip" in their green output with the effect on a Marantz dial or losing the turquoise tint that incandescent bulbs give.
     
    SaturationPt likes this.
  20. SaturationPt

    SaturationPt AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    N.E. Indiana
    A further point on many white LEDs is that the phosphor loses its properties slowly, and your "white" light often becomes dimmer and more blue. High-end white LEDs can have blue and amber light mixed to help prevent this, but I doubt that any of the white LEDs we use in our receivers use this technology.
     

Share This Page