SME series 1 ... info

[biscuithead]

Started this thread asking what it is... now looking for more info...

 

[Ilikevinyl]

That looks to me like the original SME 3009, by the round top of the bearing housing.

 

[tnsilver]

yup, 3009 series 1.

 

[Sandstrom]

Very cool, I love those first series arms. Check the collet on the end of the arm, I have seen several of the Series 1 arms that have the ability to mount sme type or emt type headshells by rotating from the 'square' pin configuration to the 'diamond'.

 

[ETI_5000]

sme type or emt type headshells

Probably more correctly Ortofon-type headshells, actually - the late Alastair Robertson-Aikman of SME admitted that he copied an existing Ortofon headshell when he designed the 3009, and was quite embarrassed when people started referring to them as SME-type! I suspect that they probably evolved from the original Ortofon plug-in cartridges, and Ortofon allowed others to use the same design for compatibility purposes.

 

[Sandstrom]

Probably more correctly Ortofon-type headshells, actually - the late Alastair Robertson-Aikman of SME admitted that he copied an existing Ortofon headshell when he designed the 3009, and was quite embarrassed when people started referring to them as SME-type! I suspect that they probably evolved from the original Ortofon plug-in cartridges, and Ortofon allowed others to use the same design for compatibility purposes.

Good point!

 

[bimasta]

This headshell is the standard throughout the industry, used by just about everyone, and is also called the "universal" headshell. Which is a pity because it's a poor design. It cannot be tightened to full rigidity, twisting the collar to pull that little pin in just can't be done securely enough: there's always a bit of "play", you can wiggle it a bit side to side and rotationally (azimuth).

Victor in Japan (aka JVC over here) made a great improvement: they used a 4-prong collet for tightening (like the chuck on a drill). It takes the same h'shell, but holds it so tight it's like a fixed HS design. It's on their 7045 arm, probably others.

We're often "stuck with" inferior designs that become standard, such as the flawed RCA plug. Improvements are impossible, once it's an "industry standard."

 

[totem]

I have seen several of the Series 1 arms that have the ability to mount sme type or emt type headshells

All series 1 arms [round yoke] both 3012 @ 3009 came with the rotating collar orientation.
This due to both EMT's diamond pattern and the Ortofon square pin style market acceptance.

I recall reading a reference to an arm Ortofon made for EMT with the diamond pattern.
So even though Ortofon is known for the standard square pattern we see today, they
it appears did produce a diamond collar style for an EMT arm.

Those early day's were certainly interesting.

 

[Sandstrom]

All series 1 arms [round yoke] both 3012 @ 3009 came with the rotating collar orientation.
This due to both EMT's diamond pattern and the Ortofon square pin style market acceptance.

I recall reading a reference to an arm Ortofon made for EMT with the diamond pattern.
So even though Ortofon is known for the standard square pattern we see today, they
it appears did produce a diamond collar style for an EMT arm.

Those early day's were certainly interesting.

Yes! The wild west of headshell mounting styles I have owned an Ortofon built ESL as well, which is diamond patterned like the EMT although the aligning pins are on opposite sides from one another between the two 'standards'. I seem to remember the Series 1 arms had alignment slots on both sides which would alleviate the compatibility problems, although I can't remember for sure.

Also the mono type A spu heads should work on diamond type/compatible arms but also have the alignment pin on the bottom like the EMT so would have to have a corresponding slot on the bottom end of the collet. I remember mounting one upside down in my stereo ESL arm once to quickly test for output.

 

[biscuithead]

so I’ve read that the series one was built between 1958 and 1963 and it used a steel tube, and non-slotted acorn nuts. Are there any other distinctions of the series one?

 

[biscuithead]

Very cool, I love those first series arms. Check the collet on the end of the arm, I have seen several of the Series 1 arms that have the ability to mount sme type or emt type headshells by rotating from the 'square' pin configuration to the 'diamond'.

I don’t see a square/diamond on the collet. Was there different iterations in these early arms?

 

[totem]

I don’t see a square/diamond on the collet. Was there different iterations in these early arms?

The actual collet rotates from square to diamond pattern. Insert cartridge in collet and rotate head shell.

All the series 1 arms did not come with slotted acorn nuts, I have a 12" series 1 with slots. Hence my reference to
the very first few series 1 made did not have slots. Or was this comment on another concurrent thread.

Here http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/please-help-me-identify-this-sme-3009.846408/

 

[biscuithead]

The actual collet rotates from square to diamond pattern. Insert cartridge in collet and rotate head shell.

All the series 1 arms did not come with slotted acorn nuts, I have a 12" series 1 with slots. Hence my reference to
the very first few series 1 made did not have slots. Or was this comment on another concurrent thread.

Here http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/please-help-me-identify-this-sme-3009.846408/

Thanks!
You seem to know quite a bit about the series 1 SMEs... I just opened a thread in D&S asking about value on this...
I have a TD-124 with a Jelco 750d... I’m thinking about setting up the 301 with a Jelco also, that way my cart/heads could be used on either.
Please let me know ( in the other thread) if you think this is doable and/or a good idea. Thanks!

 

[biscuithead]

Yes! The wild west of headshell mounting styles I have owned an Ortofon built ESL as well, which is diamond patterned like the EMT although the aligning pins are on opposite sides from one another between the two 'standards'. I seem to remember the Series 1 arms had alignment slots on both sides which would alleviate the compatibility problems, although I can't remember for sure.

Also the mono type A spu heads should work on diamond type/compatible arms but also have the alignment pin on the bottom like the EMT so would have to have a corresponding slot on the bottom end of the collet. I remember mounting one upside down in my stereo ESL arm once to quickly test for output.

After some consideration, I think it best to keep the 3009 with the 301. Having the 3009 series one worked on by SME Canada, with new TA wire that extends long enough to preAmp (1.5-2 meters) and having ceramic bearings installed...

Does anybody think this could hurt the value of the arm, or harm the “collectibility” ?

 

[Sandstrom]

After some consideration, I think it best to keep the 3009 with the 301. Having the 3009 series one worked on by SME Canada, with new TA wire that extends long enough to preAmp (1.5-2 meters) and having ceramic bearings installed...

Does anybody think this could hurt the value of the arm, or harm the “collectibility” ?

Hey! Just seeing your responses. I would keep that arm on the 301 if were mine as well. Great that you are having it serviced, that should make for a great combo. Myself, I would rather have it brought up to it's best potential and don't personally think that a re-wire and bearing replacement would ever be a negative. I always save any replaced parts so if that means something to a potential future owner, this way they can be kept with the arm.

What are you planning on cartridge-wise? I believe the SPUs were popular with them back when they came out.

 

[biscuithead]

Hey! Just seeing your responses. I would keep that arm on the 301 if were mine as well. Great that you are having it serviced, that should make for a great combo. Myself, I would rather have it brought up to it's best potential and don't personally think that a re-wire and bearing replacement would ever be a negative. I always save any replaced parts so if that means something to a potential future owner, this way they can be kept with the arm.

What are you planning on cartridge-wise? I believe the SPUs were popular with them back when they came out.

I have quite a few carts to choose from, but I don’t have an SPU currently... I tried one a few years ago with an Ort arm on a td124, and I opted for a Jelco and Denon with that...
I have all the early Empire’s, a couple Fairchild’s, two versions of the VR2, m3d, m7d, Decca, now an ADC, probably a few more that I can’t come up with now...

I still need to dive into the 301 motor ... got lots of work ahead, love it!

 

[Sandstrom]

Wow you've got some nice stuff to try out on that arm! The Decca, Fairchild and Early Shures would probably play nice with that arm. Best of luck with the refurb!

 

[biscuithead]

Wow you've got some nice stuff to try out on that arm! The Decca, Fairchild and Early Shures would probably play nice with that arm. Best of luck with the refurb!

Thanks!
All I’m asking Santa for is the time to work on it .

 

[Sandstrom]

Thanks!
All I’m asking Santa for is the time to work on it .

What we all really want for the season!