What speakers are these hanging from the ceiling?? (pictures)

[bowtie427ss]

Guessing that the changes took place in the mid to 2nd half of the 70's, JBL was well established in the pro market, and i'm sure it was a matter of the JBL components being compatible, more easily and readily available, possibly less expensive, and maybe most of all more serviceable given the large network of JBL Pro dealers stocking service parts at that time.

The Gauss parts would have been available well into the 80's. But, never at the speed or convenience with which you could source JBL parts.

Are the JBL components an upgrade, downgrade, or so close it's subjective?

Lateral/subjective, IMO. JBL would prevail due to their superior service network, not a necessarily "better" performing product. But, in the pro sound world durability and serviceability is part of the performance. JBL saw the need for this in the evolving tour sound market, and it paid them back in spades.

At least one great engineer in the field of loudspeakers, Bart Locanthi, worked for both Cetec-Gauss, and JBL at different times. It's no surprise that the products(components) of both companies from the same time period have far more similarities than differences. In the late 60's they were the only relevant companies building drivers with 4 inch voice coils.

 

[Sandstrom]

yes, and yes.



Apparently, there is still some "community immunity" to this being the original product:

Wait a minute! I thought these were upside down Gauss speakers not upside down Community speakers

 

[toddalin]

I'll have more pictures asap. The 2440's look to be installed cleanly with a additional piece of wood added to the back of the cabinets for the 2440's magnet to mount to or sit in......looks well done and painted black. Same with the front 2440 baffle - all looks well done. Hoping any internal modifications are of the same quality.

Nice. This is an important touch. The weight of the driver cantilevers on the front baffleboard and can crack it over time, especially when subjected to heavy vibration from the woofer. This takes the weight/stress off of the baffleboard. Sounds like someone did it right.

BTW, this also tells you which way they intended the cabinet to be mounted (which side up) as you would want the weight of the driver to rest on this block.

 

[toddalin]

BTW:

The system will easily produce peaks in excess of 125 dB and extended listening at loud level can and will impair your hearing. Furthermore, the PSA-2s have more than enough output power to fry everything you have if misused, or in the event of an accidential "volume excursion" or "thump" because some switch was in the wrong position and got toggled.

Look and see if the 2440s have the red wax seals over the screws. If they are there, the diaphragms are in all probability original. Even if they are not there and someone may have replaced the diaphragms, without your opening the drivers for inspection, the diaphragms should be considered to be original (original replacements were available in the past), and in either case are no longer available, though later versions and aftermarket diaphragms are. Treat them as such. Never cross them over below ~350 Hz!

The Gauss woofer cones are no longer made and no body makes replacements for these. Perhaps a few new old stock are available from ? for ?$, but don't count on it. This has kept the price of Gauss woofers down in resale. Again, treat them as such!

 

[Ramseybella]

Still have to get those brackets off - I assume right now they're actually sitting upside down, right? Can't flip them over without taking the brackets off, which I have to take the woofer out to do - the bolts have nuts on the inside.

Most likely can be removed and flipped over install facing the angle the other direction?
Never the less Hugo size cabs!!
Hope you put more all around detailed photos up...

 

[G871]

Oh I most definitely will Ramseybella! I am excited to do just that....I STILL haven't listened to them yet. Didn't have time to get cables today. Will be taking a half day at work tomorrow to finish up moving my dad out of his house, then in Chicago all day Friday, and then working a side job sat/sun........but it will happen! Going to squeeze it in somewhere when I can. Kind of funny....the biggest, baddest speakers I've ever acquired and also the longest I've had to wait before being able to play with them.

Toddalin, I appreciate that warning. I plan on being extra careful with these...the guys I got them from thought I was going a little overboard packing and wrapping them for the drive home on my trailer (in a snowstorm), but, I wasn't taking any chances I didn't have to.

As for the supports for the 2440's, they did even better than that - it's actually a square piece of thick wood with a hole cut in the middle for the driver to sit in, and it is flush. Looks really well done. So, that means the cabinet can sit any way I want it to and the mid will be supported.

 

[toxcrusadr]

We will patiently await the next report.



For at least 5 whole minutes!

 

[G871]

 

[GD70]

I’m still impatiently waiting for the haul pics!

 

[kfalls]

When I worked for CBS Records and Tapes pre-1980 in Terre Haute IN , we had two mastering rooms set up with these, driven by Crown/McIntosh amplifiers. One Mastering QC room had four, one in each corner. The setup was left over from the Quad days. We still had a Quad player (8-Track player with four-track heads) and one tape, "Bachman Turner Overdrive, Taking Care of Business". The room rocked. The other Mastering room had two. They were used to monitor masters we were either adding Dolby to, or converting to 7 1/2" masters from 15". Sadly these "disappeared" during the final days before the plant moved to Carollton, Ga. They were borrowed for an off-plant ceremony and never found their way back.

 

[G871]

I’m still impatiently waiting for the haul pics!

You mean while on the road? I hate to let ya down, but I have no haul pics. I'd meant to take pictures but was pressed for time and in a snowstorm for most of the trip....I still totally meant to, but....I forgot. :/


But, I do have some new pictures. I made some time last night to test them out, without using the new amps and crossover. It was to be purely a test of functionality to make sure everything is working. I ran into an issue....

I found that the tweeters are not hooked up on any of them. Their wires are just hanging loose in the cabs. The woofers are connected directly to one pair of binding posts and the mids through a crossover and then to the other pair of binding posts.


So the bottom binding posts there are for the woofer with the black and white wites going directly to it. The top binding posts are connected to the mid. Negative comes from the mid, to the resistor and then out to the binding post, and the positive comes from the mid, to the other side of the resistor, and then to the cap, and back out of the cap to the positive binding post. The other sleeved black/red wires (can be seen sleeved at bottom right) go to the tweeter and are just hanging, not connected to anything.

So if I'm seeing this right, there's no crossover section for the tweeter. Was it removed? I'm clueless. They had tweeters hanging from the ceiling, so maybe they just disconnected all of these tweeters?? I dunno.


This little patch is on the back of each speaker, where the wires for the 2440 come through to hook up since the back end of the 2440 is outside of the cabinet. On one pair, which this speaker belongs to, the mids had already been disconnected for some reason. If you have trouble reading it, it says "Mid 1 Black 2 Red, Tweeter 3 Black 4 Red" and then has holes for the mid wires to come through which are labeled black and red. The other pair does have those wires coming through and going to the mids, like this:




So, I'm assuming I'm missing something here. The tweeter is not connected to the crossover, and doesn't appear to have anywhere to connect to. What's going on here?


Before I go, here's a shot of a beautiful 5831 Gauss woofer. Incredibly heavy. Heaviest woofer I've ever handled, anyway. I love it.



While testing, I could definitely tell these are going to be impressive. So excited to get them going!!!

Oh one more thing....the PSA-2's power cords look like this:


What the heck do I do with that? Just put a different plug on there, I'm assuming....

Let me know if you'd like a better picture of the crossover or anything and I'll see what I can do.

Off to work I go - talk to ya'll later.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Do not cut that wire on the Crown. It is a 20A plug and you can get short wires that convert from 20A plug to a standard 15A plug. One came with some Crown gear.

just examples:
short jumper: https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-2200-B...=item2820d34d43:g:CwsAAOSwa39U1EZG:rk:38:pf:0
adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-amp-to-...T0jvE:sc:USPSFirstClass!19382!US!-1:rk:2:pf:0
another one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Conntek-30...=item56baf6b4d3:g:-twAAOSwdr1b7sOU:rk:21:pf:0

Previous owner of a PSA-2 I had converted the plug. I would rather have the original and use a jumper. The power supply with my DL-2 preamp has the original 20A plug and I made a jumper for it. If you are going to relay switch 20A wired amps, a power supply needs to have at least that going in, even though the preamp used very little power.

here is one at a reasonable price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Male-1...m=122312495299&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

[GD70]

You mean while on the road? I hate to let ya down, but I have no haul pics. I'd meant to take pictures but was pressed for time and in a snowstorm for most of the trip....I still totally meant to, but....I forgot. :/


But, I do have some new pictures. I made some time last night to test them out, without using the new amps and crossover. It was to be purely a test of functionality to make sure everything is working. I ran into an issue....

I found that the tweeters are not hooked up on any of them. Their wires are just hanging loose in the cabs. The woofers are connected directly to one pair of binding posts and the mids through a crossover and then to the other pair of binding posts.

View attachment 1332629
So the bottom binding posts there are for the woofer with the black and white wites going directly to it. The green and red wires come from the crossover (just a big cap and resistor, right? Never seen a resistor like that, but assuming...) The red and black wires in the grey sleeve going to the resistor are coming from the 2440 mid. The other sleeved black/red wires (can be seen sleeved at bottom right) go to the tweeter and are just hanging.

So if I'm seeing this right, there's no crossover section for the tweeter. Was it removed? I'm clueless. They had tweeters hanging from the ceiling, so maybe they just disconnected all of these tweeters?? I dunno.

View attachment 1332630
This little patch is on the back of each speaker, where the wires for the 2440 come through to hook up since the back end of the 2440 is outside of the cabinet. On one pair, which this speaker belongs to, the mids had already been disconnected for some reason. If you have trouble reading it, it says "Mid 1 Black 2 Red, Tweeter 3 Black 4 Red" and then has holes for the mid wires to come through which are labeled black and red. The other pair does have those wires coming through and going to the mids, like this:

View attachment 1332631


So, I'm assuming I'm missing something here. The tweeter is not connected to the crossover, and doesn't appear to have anywhere to connect to. What's going on here?


Before I go, here's a shot of a beautiful 5831 Gauss woofer. Incredibly heavy. Heaviest woofer I've ever handled, anyway. I love it.

View attachment 1332632

While testing, I could definitely tell these are going to be impressive. So excited to get them going!!!

Oh one more thing....the PSA-2's power cords look like this:
View attachment 1332633

What the heck do I do with that? Just put a different plug on there, I'm assuming....

Let me know if you'd like a better picture of the crossover or anything and I'll see what I can do. It's pretty straightforward though. Negative comes from the mid, to the resistor and then out to the binding post, and the positive comes from the mid, to the other side of the resistor, and then to the cap, and back out to the positive binding post.

Off to work I go - talk to ya'll later.

I was thinking more of a pic all packed up, or a couple pics of the entire haul at home once all was unloaded, a group shot!
Regardless, you have lots of fun ahead getting this all singing again

 

[Blue Shadow]

The OM for the NAK is on HFE for download. https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nakamichi/ta-4.shtml
Shows a rated output of 1V so it has regular preamp outputs and will work just fine with that VFX or PSA if you just go full range with the speaker/amp.

The TA also has two preamp outputs, one jumpered to the receiver's amp the other open to play. Good flexibility with that.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Yep they are for sale, but turns out they are 5.5 hours away....4 cabinets, $500 each....and then 2 of the quad setups, and he has the amps for them too. (Not sure what amps) Not sure I want to drive that far....

How do you feel about the drive, now that is it done?

Nice haul of some proper pro/home audio gear. What made you leave the bullets behind, funding? That is quite a stack of gear and it probably cost quite a stack of bills. But you probably did really well and will be on a steep learning curve as you figure out what is actually going to work best for you. Got any big and I mean big parties planned needing some serious tunes?

 

[Blue Shadow]

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...-psa-2-cleaning-and-return-to-service.555030/

If not mentioned in that thread or another one you read the ±15 volt supply on the PSA-2 is the critical adjustment per the Crown Tech at AE Techron a Crown service facility using many former Crown employees.

 

[toddalin]

You mean while on the road? I hate to let ya down, but I have no haul pics. I'd meant to take pictures but was pressed for time and in a snowstorm for most of the trip....I still totally meant to, but....I forgot. :/


But, I do have some new pictures. I made some time last night to test them out, without using the new amps and crossover. It was to be purely a test of functionality to make sure everything is working. I ran into an issue....

I found that the tweeters are not hooked up on any of them. Their wires are just hanging loose in the cabs. The woofers are connected directly to one pair of binding posts and the mids through a crossover and then to the other pair of binding posts.

View attachment 1332629
So the bottom binding posts there are for the woofer with the black and white wites going directly to it. The top binding posts are connected to the mid. Negative comes from the mid, to the resistor and then out to the binding post, and the positive comes from the mid, to the other side of the resistor, and then to the cap, and back out of the cap to the positive binding post. The other sleeved black/red wires (can be seen sleeved at bottom right) go to the tweeter and are just hanging, not connected to anything.

So if I'm seeing this right, there's no crossover section for the tweeter. Was it removed? I'm clueless. They had tweeters hanging from the ceiling, so maybe they just disconnected all of these tweeters?? I dunno.

View attachment 1332630
This little patch is on the back of each speaker, where the wires for the 2440 come through to hook up since the back end of the 2440 is outside of the cabinet. On one pair, which this speaker belongs to, the mids had already been disconnected for some reason. If you have trouble reading it, it says "Mid 1 Black 2 Red, Tweeter 3 Black 4 Red" and then has holes for the mid wires to come through which are labeled black and red. The other pair does have those wires coming through and going to the mids, like this:

View attachment 1332631

So, I'm assuming I'm missing something here. The tweeter is not connected to the crossover, and doesn't appear to have anywhere to connect to. What's going on here?


Before I go, here's a shot of a beautiful 5831 Gauss woofer. Incredibly heavy. Heaviest woofer I've ever handled, anyway. I love it.

View attachment 1332632

While testing, I could definitely tell these are going to be impressive. So excited to get them going!!!

Oh one more thing....the PSA-2's power cords look like this:
View attachment 1332633

What the heck do I do with that? Just put a different plug on there, I'm assuming....

Let me know if you'd like a better picture of the crossover or anything and I'll see what I can do.

Off to work I go - talk to ya'll later.

It would be very typical to run the mids and highs together to the horn/tweeter assembly from one amp, and use a passive network between the mid and tweeter. One would assume that this is the intended purpose of the cap and resistor. Otherwise, being bi-amped, there is no need for these pieces, except perhaps to protect the drivers from too low a frequency or dc voltage.

The cap in series with the tweeter filters out the lower frequencies, and the resistor provides a balance to the mids. What are the values of the cap and resistor?

My PSA-2XH (eXtended Headroom made for ShowCo) has the same cord, but a standard US outlet.

It looks to me like they tried to mount a tweeter outside of the cabinet and the black and red wires at the holes are redundant. Maybe this is how the 2402 arrays (or ???) were originally run before getting their own amp?

 

[G871]

No the backs of the 2440 magnets, and thus the binding posts, are actually outside of the cabinet, so that's what those patch panels are for - so the wires can connect to the 2440's. On one pair the wires were still coming out of that patch panel and connected to the 2440's. The tweeters aren't connected to anything in there - the mids go through the resistor and cap. That's why I'm confused - the wires on the tweeters don't seem to have anywhere to connect to.

So the mids and tweeters aren't actually together, they're totally separate and unconnected. The tweeter wires are just hanging loose in the cabinet. I don't know what to do with them. I can run the mids and woofers, but no tweeters.

 

[toddalin]

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...-psa-2-cleaning-and-return-to-service.555030/

If not mentioned in that thread or another one you read the ±15 volt supply on the PSA-2 is the critical adjustment per the Crown Tech at AE Techron a Crown service facility using many former Crown employees.

If one of the other rails drifts too far, the amp fan will come on and the amp will subsequently make garbled noises and go into shutdown. I've adjusted mine a couple times, and these are the symptoms I've encountered.

When checking the voltage, you need to be careful not to short the adjacent pins. With the amp still off, I run three insulated, solid wires to the +, -, and neutral 15 volt pins (just stuff them into the plugs) so I can check these voltages outside of the amp without fear of shorting these pins. If to voltages are right on, great. If they have drifted, I turn the amp off and note the position of the wipers. I then move them back and forth to clean them and return them to their original positions. Then I turn on the amp and tweak them into position. You don't want to be far off when you power up. Also, one of mine was originally sitting at 15.05 volts (other had drifted down causing the noted problems) so I reduced them to 14.95 volts to contact a different spot on the wipers.

Threat the pots/wipers very carefully. They are no longer manufactured and made of unobtanium. Also, be careful of any glass diodes which are also made of unobtanium. I broke one for the LED display and a silicon diode does not respond the same (clipping light would come on too early). Luckily, I was able to get an original replacement from a Crown service dealer on the JBL forum.

 

[toddalin]

No the backs of the 2440 magnets, and thus the binding posts, are actually outside of the cabinet, so that's what those patch panels are for - so the wires can connect to the 2440's. On one pair the wires were still coming out of that patch panel and connected to the 2440's. The tweeters aren't connected to anything in there - the mids go through the resistor and cap. That's why I'm confused - the wires on the tweeters don't seem to have anywhere to connect to.

So the mids and tweeters aren't actually together, they're totally separate and unconnected. The tweeter wires are just hanging loose in the cabinet. I don't know what to do with them. I can run the mids and woofers, but no tweeters.

Again, what are the values of the cap and resistor?

The simplest way to run the tweeter is to put a 1 mfd capacitor between the + wire for the horn driver and the center leg (terminal 2) of an 8-ohm L-pad (25 watt L-pads should be fine). Run the output of the L-pad (terminal 3) to the tweeter + and terminal 1 and the tweeter - to the -.

The L-pad will allow you to adjust the tweeters' volumes. You may need to swap the leads at the tweeter to get the best phasing.