What turntable are you running with your Fisher?

[Rob Thomas]

I'm shopping around for a vintage TT to compliment my 800. I have been like a kid in a candy store on the TT forums here at AK and know there are a million opinions. I'm aware of the usual suspects such as Dual, Thorens, Garrard, Technics and such but wanted to see what my Fisher brethren prefer and why.

Thanks in advance!

 

[walyfd]

The original Garrard 88 in the console and a Garrard type a II with the 500B. I prefer the type A. They're relatively cheap and plentiful, plus period correct.

 

[RS Steve]

I use a Thorens and a Dennon with my Fisher's.

 

[stormking]

I have many different turntables but my favorite with my fisher gear is an early AR-XA.

 

[larryderouin]

Depending on the console, anywhere from a Webster 100-27 all the way to a Type A MkII in Garrard's, a 10F and 50H in Elac Miracord. Separates, are a LAB-80 or a Zero-100. Carts range from GE Multi Inductance carts (RPX) in the MONO units, Pickering U38 and ATE in the Garrard stereo consoles, an ATE in the 10F and a Shure M91 in the 50H. The Lab 80 a Shure M55, and a V15-III on the Zero 100.

 

[gadget73]

Garrard Lab 80 most of the time, either with a Pickering V15 or a Stanton 680 on it. My TA-600 hasn't been re-capped and it hasn't quite graduated to living in the house yet. The Lab 80 is my workshop changer.

 

[Rob Thomas]

Good stuff guys! Thanks for the input. It's a shame Fisher TT's weren't all that great but it's important to give a Fisher something special. Also while a Technics table is one of the best, I can't fall in love with the looks..

 

[larryderouin]

Back in the day, Garrard turntables were considered to be very good. Sure they had some cheap models (every Co does, including Techics) but they had some realyl good models, like the lab 80 and the Zero 100. Comparing todays direct drive, computerized, spun, folded, and mutilated stuff with 1950's to 1960's mechanical tables, is like comparing Macintosh apples to Granny Smiths, to Red Delicious. They are all apples and they all have their specialties.

Fisher turned to Elac Miracord in about 1963 and got a custom built 10F which is mechanically a 10H but with FISHER on the compensating weight and a different color.

100% of the Garrards today need to be taken down and overhauled. Overhauled meaning tearing it completely down to the individual parts, cleaning said parts of concretious accumulations of old lubricant grease, and re-greasing or lubricating with modern silicone based greases and lubricants then re-assembly of all the parts in reverse order of dis-assembly. You also replace the motor mount grommets, and the idler wheel. DeGrease and lubricate the motor. Once all that is done, make a few adjustments, and you're good for about 10 years, with minor lubrication along the way (just like oil changes in a car). You blow a chip in a new TT and it's good by honey!

I can work on them (after overhaul it doesn't take much) but would rather not. You learn what you can get away with, and it isn't much on the Garrard's. They require overhauls when the 1960's grease becomes concretious, and then a light oiling yearly.

 

[3l3ctron]

 

[gadget73]

lab 80 and the Zero 100

I know some people really give flak to the Zero-100, but I honestly really like mine. If I'm being absolutely honest, it may be better sounding than the Lab 80. Its definitely a less frustrating piece of gear to own and work on. I recently was able to lay my grubby little hands on the factory alignment tool for the Zero as well.

 

[larryderouin]

Ok gadget spill it. Where did you rape, pillage and plunder to come up with THAT!!!

 

[gadget73]

It was posted here in BT Parts. Vinylhunter had it listed as what it was, but he wasn't totally sure which model it fit. It looked right so I bought it. I wasn't actively looking for one but its an uncommon enough piece that I wasn't going to let it pass.

 

[RS Steve]

I love my Miracord tables, they are real performers and probably under appreciated.

 

[larryderouin]

I really like the 50H better than the 10F's. Although the 10F's (1 in service and 1 for parts) are your basic table they tend to out perform the AT-6 and older Garrards. They tend to be just under the LAB80. However I think the 50H is better than the Lab80, and seriously less complicated even with the 58 Dodge Push button transmission for speed selectors. It's very easy to set for Tracking weight, and tends to hold it a lot better than the Garrards, even the later ones.

My problem is all my Miracords are console based and I couldn't make a box it if was the last thing on earth I had to do. Got to find someone who's good at woodworking. I cut out base plates for all of my FISHER consoles( they are all different) so all I have to do is take and change the base plate, and out comes whatever and in goes the 50H.

 

[RS Steve]

I really like the 50H better than the 10F's. Although the 10F's (1 in service and 1 for parts) are your basic table they tend to out perform the AT-6 and older Garrards. They tend to be just under the LAB80. However I think the 50H is better than the Lab80, and seriously less complicated even with the 58 Dodge Push button transmission for speed selectors. It's very easy to set for Tracking weight, and tends to hold it a lot better than the Garrards, even the later ones.

My problem is all my Miracords are console based and I couldn't make a box it if was the last thing on earth I had to do. Got to find someone who's good at woodworking. I cut out base plates for all of my FISHER consoles( they are all different) so all I have to do is take and change the base plate, and out comes whatever and in goes the 50H.

The plynths show up quite often, I have a nice one for a 10H hanging around here.

 

[gadget73]

I'd like to have a Miracord sometime, but people keep giving me Garrards, or offering them so cheap I can't pass on them. One of my Lab 80's was free, and came with an extra headshell, a good cartridge with nail, the cake top cover, and the coveted single play spindle. You just can't leave stuff like that to be thrown away.

 

[sslade43]

I use a Rek-O-Kut and a Denon.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

I'm shopping around for a vintage TT to compliment my 800. I have been like a kid in a candy store on the TT forums here at AK and know there are a million opinions. I'm aware of the usual suspects such as Dual, Thorens, Technics and such but wanted to see what my Fisher brethren prefer and why.

Thanks in advance!

PS. I am new to AK and am just overwhelmed by the knowledge and tone of this site and feel that we are so very blessed to have such a community.

Your receiver model was made circa 1959-1961.

Do you want a "period correct" turntable that performs? If so, here are my recommendations--both of which were available for sale in 1961 (overlapping with production of your 800) and use a top of the line Papst hysteresis synchronous motor for precise rotational motor velocity (locked on to the 60Hz mains).

1. Manual belt drive: Empire 208 / 298 / 398. Manufactured from 1960-1969. Try a Denon 103R cartridge. New aftermarket belts are available. Get the Esoteric branded for "Rek O Kut" belt (not the "Empire" belt) for true speed. The base without the tonearm was called "208". When the Empire 98 tonearm was added it became the "298". If the Empire 980 tonearm was added, it became the "398." Kind of confusing but just do a search for 208, 298 or 398 if you want to pick one up. The 98 tonearm is more period correct for your receiver.

2. Auto/Changer idler drive: Elac Miracord 10H. Manufactured from 1961-1966. (Note: only the "10H" models have the upgraded synchronous Papst motor. The "10F" and "10" that came in some Fisher consoles do NOT have the high quality Papst motor). Try a Shure M35X cartridge. Note that Fisher used Elac Miracords in their very top of the line consoles like the President and Executive -- so these Elacs visually mate with a Fisher like beans and rice.

Below are my 1961 Empire and 1963 Elac. The biggest issue I'm finding with the Elac is taming rumble from motor noise. I need to replace the Elac rubber motor mounts (the originals are dry and hard) but I can't find an appropriate aftermarket motor mount for Elacs. (If anyone has found some new Elac motor mounts, please let me know). The idler wheel should also be refreshed.

In contrast, new motor mounts for an Empire are readily available.

For sound quality that can go toe to toe with modern tables costing thousands, get the Empire. They are that good. They are also very simple and reliable.

The Elacs are very reliable for a changer (arguably the best mechanical changer of the era) and have great sonic potential. Drawbacks are finding motor mounts and having to shave the pulley slightly to achieve more accurate speed. Most Elacs of the 1960s run about 1% or more fast due to the pulley steps being slightly too large.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

On the other hand, if you just want a reliable workhorse turntable with no fuss, you could always get a used direct drive Technics 1200 and put an AT 150MLX cartridge (recently discontinued but still available) on it. These are bullet proof and will run forever. The AT 150MLX will virtually eliminate inner groove distortion and sibilance.

 

[larryderouin]

Monk, have you tried Gary Stork @ TheVoiceofMusic.com ? He's got a decent selection of mounts. But I haven't gotten any for the Miracord's yet.