What's the difference between an AR XA and XA-91?

[beatcomber]

So, can anyone explain the difference between the different models? In this thread we've discussed the XA-91 we all know about the XB already. But what distinguished the AR-TX, AR-TA, AR-TT, etc.? I believe at least one of them only had a 33 pulley?

 

[loquatious]

well, we know the XA91 was an M91ed equipped XA.

we know the TX and TT were both pre-XA two motor models. TX came first (this may be the 33 rpm only model), TT came after.

we know the TA was exactly the same as the XA and both were produced concurrently during the entire XA production run. when XAs had two motors, the TAs had two motors. when XAs had one motor, the TAs had one motor. when XAs changed to textured tops, TAs changed to textured tops. both could be had with solid walnut, or veneered bases. etc., etc., etc.

what we don't know is why bother with different designations at all between XA and TA. in the back of my mind, i still wonder if TAs were XAs that were returned to the factory under warranty as defective new units, then refurbished, and sold again under full warranty with the serial number kept, but the letters changed to TA. hence my speculation that TA stood for "try again". of course that is pure conjecture and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up.




something very interesting just happened that probably adds nothing to the mystery of 12ax7's table, but shows you never stop learning when it comes to ARs. today, there was a thread started about a 1964 XA find. i'm sure you saw it. original box, instructions, etc. all you'd hope for. plus good photo documentation. spec's out like this:

XA 37238 (1964)
motor: double
base: solid walnut
headshell: gray
plinth top: smooth gray
plinth bottom: gray
base bottom: slot vents, varnished
T-bar: notched
address: thorndike st.
warranty: 1 year
box: blue print

its been added to the database, and is the 3rd earliest serial number at the moment. what is interesting (besides it was a score!) is the serial number has a space between the letters and the numbers. just like 12ax7's serial number. what does that mean? i have no idea. but it is only the 3rd time i've seen that. it suggests there are other cases out there like it, and the idea the space is a typo holds less water.


also, the photos of the '64 table showed the location of screw mounting holes for the motors clearly. i pilfered a couple of his photos so 12ax7 can use them as reference to check his. it may be the textured coating just filled them in on his.



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[12ax7]

Here's a closer look at the serial number, even in bright light it looks unmolested (not sure why I got the blurring of the word "oiled", I've only had the camera for ten years).

And here's the area where the starter motor would be. Original paint and no holes, other than the potential spindle hole, for the mounting plate screws.

Would the length of the screws that tie the steel deck to the little L-brackets be an age indicator? Most I've seen are much shorter.

These are the pencil marks I mentioned. They're probably not indicative of anything out of the ordinary, but... The 3M number tape is mine, I used the original tonearm wiring when I added the Technics arm wand.

 

[loquatious]

Would the length of the screws that tie the steel deck to the little L-brackets be an age indicator? Most I've seen are much shorter.

my tables have shorter screws. compared to my 70's tables, your "L" brackets are flipped upside down and located farther from the top to accommodate the longer screws. that doesn't mean they are wrong. probably just a production change. referring back to the "norbert" XA thread, that '64 XA looks like it has long screws and inverted L brackets. probably just went to shorter screws in later production because they were cheaper.

the pencil figures on yours are an interesting clue. they might suggest it may have been subject to mods at some point before you got it. it would seem the factory production line shouldn't need to do any "figuring" during assembly. the vendor that supplied the cabinets shouldn't need to either. then again, they may have nothing to do with the table at all.



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[DTurco]

Ha!

This is exactly why I took sooo many photos. I figured it would help someone with a base line reference.:thmbsp:

 

[12ax7]

The staples were the only thing holding the L-brackets in place. If they were flipped the brackets would slide right out. I've since added short wood screws.

That Norbert table was a true find.

 

[loquatious]

The staples were the only thing holding the L-brackets in place. If they were flipped the brackets would slide right out. I've since added short wood screws.

That Norbert table was a true find.

on the XA i modded (which was bought as a carcass, and the only one i've removed the brackets on) the L brackets had a dab of glue on the back, seemed like the staples just held them in place while the glue set. original glue was pretty tough stuff. had to use paint and epoxy remover to clean it off. used epoxy to reglue and reused original staples after i modded and refinished the wood case.

both my stock 70s tables (TA & XA) have the L brackets attached to the wood cab with tiny wood screws, and have short machine screws to mount the top deck.

there were definitely production changes along the way.



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[gadget73]

Any want for another S/N to add? This is mine:

XA|97605
motor: single
base: solid walnut
headshell: gray
plinth top: textured brown
plinth bottom:natural metal (unless I misunderstand this? There is no 2 piece plinth on mine)
base bottom: slot vents, masonite
T-bar: ??? don't understand this
address: thorndike st.
warranty: not sure, documentation in another room
box: ???

If it means anything to anyone, I bought it from someone here in NJ, don't know where he got it. It has a sticker on the back for Audio Tech Service in Toledo, OH.

 

[throwback]

Hi

I picked up a AR XA model today at Goodwill. I have tried it and it seems to play good with a slight ticking at the motor.

sn XA 275579
motor single
base veneer
headshell black
plinth top textured
address american drive

Jack

 

[marcmorin]

Hi

I picked up a AR XA model today at Goodwill. I have tried it and it seems to play good with a slight ticking at the motor.

sn XA 275579
motor single
base veneer
headshell black
plinth top textured
address american drive

Jack

add a drop of oil on top the motor where the shaft exits. Let the motor run with belt off. every hour or two dab the oil off with a q-tip and add a fresh drop. The oil should float the debris out of the shaft sleeve. Oil the motor about once a month or two.

 

[beatcomber]

Hi

I picked up a AR XA model today at Goodwill. I have tried it and it seems to play good with a slight ticking at the motor.

sn XA 275579
motor single
base veneer
headshell black
plinth top textured
address american drive

Jack

GREAT score. You have a mid '70s AR-XA, one of the last ones.

 

[throwback]

Thanks for the tip Marcmorin. I will give it a try. Well spent $18.00 .

Jack

 

[beatcomber]

Well spent $18.00 .

Amazing.

Once you get accustomed to the sound of the stock AR-XA, I urge you to consult offline with Marc on how to maximize its potential. Note what I have in my sig file below... :yes:

 

[throwback]

HI

I tried what you said Marcmorin. There is no sound at all now. This is one sweet tt. I probably will not come across another one way up here but I would buy another one in a second.

Jack

 

[Wes_in_VA]

HI

I tried what you said Marcmorin. There is no sound at all now. This is one sweet tt. I probably will not come across another one way up here but I would buy another one in a second.

Jack

And down the rabbit hole he goes.

I have an XB modified by marc and it's a really killer table. I'm starting to think about taking the next steps in tweaking it....

 

[Dr Tinear]

Hi

I picked up a AR XA model today at Goodwill. I have tried it and it seems to play good with a slight ticking at the motor.

sn XA 275579
motor single
base veneer
headshell black
plinth top textured
address american drive

Jack

My XA-91 is slightly newer than yours. My parents bought it for me for Christmas 1974. The motor on mine is steady and quiet and the turntable sounds great. The foam platter mat is history, but the replacement felt mat I bought from AR is in great shape.

sn: XA 283883
motor: single
base: walnut vinyl
headshell: black
plinth top: textured
plinth bottom: ?
base bottom: solid
address: american drive

I also have an earlier XA that I picked up for $10 in the late 1990s.

sn: XA 201003
motor: single
base: solid walnut
headshell: gray
plinth top: textured brown
plinth bottom: ?
base bottom: slot vents w/hole, varnished
address: thorndike st.

 

[beatcomber]

Just bumping this fascinating thread, hoping that more info will come to light.

Is it still true that my AR-TX (s/n TX-19826) is the earliest AR on AudioKarma?

 

[loquatious]

no, at the moment, steve (sfrost) has got the earliest unit in the database. that being TT 03239 (he also has the latest, XA 286451). as of now, the earliest TX is serial number 13103, an AR retrofitted table that is another anomaly, as its number is lower than some TT tables. as best as can be ascertained from the database, TX production ceased somewhere between serial number 22018 (a late TX) and serial number 23408 (an early XA). the line between TT and TX is blurrier, as it seems there was some overlap between those models.





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[sberger]

Ar xa sn 85954

 

[beatcomber]

no, at the moment, steve (sfrost) has got the earliest unit in the database. that being TT 03239.

That IS early!!

Is your current database publicly viewable somewhere?