When is an Ariston a Linn Sondek LP 12?

[Hamstall]

The deck appearing in this thread is LP12 00005.

I don’t know of RD11 0000005 but I have a friend who has seen 0000001.

It would possibly be useful to list the known decks and their numbers on a separate post.

 

[cre009]

ok - a list is something I was considering doing. I have not previously looked very hard at the serials and decks but am now starting to get a view of what may have gone on.

 

[Macaroonie]

Curious where #s approx 100 to 500 all went.

 

[theophile]

Export?

 

[cre009]

Curious where #s approx 100 to 500 all went.

I will have to go through the images carefully but I suspect the majority of those were not made.

The higher serial numbers around 6xx include many decks which were inspected by Hamish (WJR) but the tearing off of labels implies they were not sold to him. Probably sold at the Castle factory since Hamstall has established no dealers sold twin button decks on behalf of Linn. These were probably sold off first with decks going out in a descending serial number sequence for whatever reason.

For lower numbers in the 5xx range they seem to have been getting more aggressive about removing reference to Ariston. They may have been getting twitchy about possible trademark infringement or similar by then.

Linn 005 is an oddity. They may have started to use some serials starting at 1 but then subsequently used serials intermingled with the retail LP12s.

 

[Hamstall]

All numbers have been used for Linn decks. 000008 appeared recently, 000081 is owned by an acquaintance of mine. Both are red rocker switch decks.

I suspect we’ll find all numbers were used for Castle Aristons too, and it’s just coincidence that none between 100 and 500 have readily come to light. Canada was a big Ariston market. I reckon a fair few are there.

 

[Hamstall]

By the time the LP12 was on the market, the RD11 was being made at Westayr I think. I doubt any Castle built RD11s were sold apart from the friends and family decks sold rebadged as LP12s. There’s unlikely to be any overlap of serial numbers.

 

[cre009]

A small number of Dunlop-Westayr decks were probably sold at the end of 72. They apparently had point bearings. One poster on the Wam appears to have bought one.

Linn was registered as a company in February 73.

The threat by Jack Tiefenbrun effectively closed Ariston down until the September 73 Harrogate show where they re-launched the deck but revised the bearing. I can scan the show report but I transcribed it in my post at PFM.

"A welcome reappearance was made by the Ariston brand name, which has not been too much in evidence over the past few months. The improved RD11 turntable was on demonstration through their new headphones. The deck modifications include increasing the turntable mass to 9 1/2 lb and provision of slip clutch, together with mounting changes facilitating installation".

Peter Dunlop then made an announcement in the Dec 73 edition of Hi-Fi News saying they hoped to manufacture quantities in the region of three to four thousand within the next few months. Don't think they achieved quite that level but they had reasonable sales in 74.

Not convinced by your export theory but you need it to get the volume of decks up to 650 to 700. Otherwise they max out at 250 to 300.

Thanks for the Linn serial details. I don't have familiarity with them.

 

[Hamstall]

Yes. I had a point bearing Westayr RD11. No. 11/001456.

 

[cre009]

My list of decks - there may be others from forum posts I have saved and I need to check those but this will do as a starter. I don't believe 000545 has made it to this thread. I am including Dunlop-Westayr decks I got from ebay listings as an indication of their serials.

Ariston - ex Castle twin button
000001 - no images but obtained ex demo direct from Hamish - was this a Hamish prototype?
none from 000002 to 000073. Would be useful to know if any of these are out there!

000073 - Hamstall correspondent - no images
000082 - original top plate - WJR signature - yellow label intact - various components replaced with LP12 parts
000095 - wjr signature - yellow label intact
none known from 000096 to 000502

000503 - 00503 on inspection label - yellow label torn - original Ariston serial number label removed? Edit serial actually says 00503 so not clear if it is a Ariston or Linn serial
000545 - ebay images - may have inspection signature but unclear - yellow label removed - serial number label intact
000570 - VE thread - no image of inspection label - yellow label - serial number label intact
000624 - inspection signature but not clear - no yellow label - serial number label intact
000629 - inspection signature different - yellow label intact - serial number label cut
any from 630 out there?

Linn Labels ex Castle twin button - believed to be factory sold - serial numbers appear to intermingle with retail LP12s
0005 - 0005 on inspection label - yellow label torn
0088 - 0088 on inspection label - yellow label torn
3503 - 3503 on inspection label - yellow label torn
4225 - 4225 on inspection label - yellow label torn

Ariston RD11 - ex Dunlop-Westayr - CDN probably Canada export
RD11 000024 CDN
RD11 000114 CDN
RD11 003022
RD11 003149
11 001456 - ex Hamstall
1100/1551

Ariston RD11s - ex Dunlop-Westayr - note early RD11s decks had plinths dating to early 74
RD11s 002789 CDN
RD11 007939 - label cut

Ariston RD11E - ex Dunlop-Westayr
E 002929

 

[Macaroonie]

Bad post , sorry. See below

 

[Macaroonie]

Post # 46 page 3 #140 in Canada

 

[Hamstall]

Broadly agree with your list, but can add:

RD11 000082 was bought chassis only by original owner and armboard never used. It was mounted in a home made plinth with enlarged armboard to fit SME3012 12” arm. Later sold to the Hi-fi Hangar in Bordon who fitted it into an LP12 plinth and armboard but chassis, top plate, motor are all original. I bought it and fitted the correct RD11 plinth and armboard and an SME3009. I still own it.

I also own LP12 serial 0000503 with intact yellow stickers etc. Pics attached.

 

[Hamstall]

And your paragraph thus:

000503 - 000503 on inspection label - yellow label torn - original Ariston serial number label removed?
000545 - ebay images - may have inspection signature but unclear - yellow label removed - serial number label intact
000570 - VE thread - no image of inspection label - yellow label - serial number label intact
000624 - inspection signature but not clear - no yellow label - serial number label intact
000629 - inspection signature different - yellow label intact - serial number label cut.

These were all badged and sold as LP12s. The serial numbers correspond to the normal LP12 run. They punctuate the run of red rocker switch decks.

Ah. I see you know that.

 

[cre009]

Post # 46 page 3 #140 in Canada

Would be nice to see images of that one - well spotted

 

[cre009]

mistake in my post re 503 - the serial number on the deck is 00503 so it is not clear which part of the list it belongs.

 

[cre009]

Images for 000545 that I stored

 

[Hamstall]

Michael Trei, The well-known US/UK audio journo has an unnumbered RD11 of the Castle type. The WJR signature is present but both serial number label and yellow sticker removed or were never fitted. Another chassis-only job, fitted to a fairly vile plinth reminiscent of the type that Sony foisted on their incarnation of the Goldring Lenco GL75.

I’ll see if he’ll send me a pic.

 

[Hamstall]

Michael Trei's RD11.

 

[Hamstall]

The threat by Jack Tiefenbrun effectively closed Ariston down until the September 73 Harrogate show where they re-launched the deck but revised the bearing. I can scan the show report but I transcribed it in my post at PFM.

"A welcome reappearance was made by the Ariston brand name, which has not been too much in evidence over the past few months. The improved RD11 turntable was on demonstration through their new headphones. The deck modifications include increasing the turntable mass to 9 1/2 lb and provision of slip clutch, together with mounting changes facilitating installation".

Peter Dunlop then made an announcement in the Dec 73 edition of Hi-Fi News saying they hoped to manufacture quantities in the region of three to four thousand within the next few months. Don't think they achieved quite that level but they had reasonable sales in 74.

This doesn’t explain how my Jan 1974 deck 0001456 has a single point bearing. The plinth is date stamped.

I think the 'improvements in installation' must refer to the revised armboard fitting. The stupid little self tappers (3-off) as used by Linn up to the point of the Keel and Kore were replaced by two pressed steel lugs in the subchassis, and a captive nut. The armboard was secured to the top of this by means of an allen bolt. This made tonearm removal much easier and probably provided a more secure interface between subchassis and armboard - something that Linn resisted doing because the percieved wisdom was that the three small self tappers provided a 'lossy' interface between subchassis and armboard, thus reducing bearing noise being transmitted.

I'd buy that, were it not for the fact that Linn insisted every damned nut, bolt and fastener on an LP12 should be tightened almost to breaking point to minimise losses between the deck and cartridge. The reason that they now offer a solid one-piece chassis/armboard is that 'improvements' to the bearing with the Cirkus mod provides such a noiseless bearing that there's no noise to transmit. I smell bullshit.