Where the Hell do I

gonzp

Klipschophile
Start a Bose thread and not sound like a hater or an audio snob? I have a brother 2 years younger than me. (41) who has heard stereos from the 70's as well as the new stuff. He spent ~3500 dollars on a Bose HTIAB, had a party, and was proud as a peacock of the sound that his little cube speakers could put out. The thing that was so funny was, everyone there was old enough to remember 1970's stereos and before they even heard the system they said "Bose is the best" "I wish I had the money to buy this system" "it don't get any better than Bose" I too was amazed at the LACK of sound that $3500 can buy you in the Bose world. No sound stage, no depth, no low end, no top end, very little seperation. I will say that in the home theatre mode with Top Gun playing it was tolerable, but than so too is a $25.00 boom box from wally world. I also have owned Bose stuff even as late as the early 90's and I can honestly say this stuff does not sound anything like folks say that it does. $3500 even today in this shitty economy can buy a really decent stereo, I just wonder what prompts people to pluck down hard earned cash to buy this stuff and think that it is HI-FI?
Marketing?



Cheers, Patrick
 
Sure, marketing. I would add a good dose of ignorance, too. Same reason people DO buy WallyWorld boomboxes or all in one systems. They don't read, they don't ask anyone who knows about stereo, they don't seek out shops that sell decent equipment, they won't even imagine anything used like we do here at AK,... Unless you read Stereophool or even Sound & Vision, the only ads I see in mass market magazines for anything even remotely hi fidelity is from Bose. How much do you want to bet that Bose buyers have never set foot in a dealer's shop that sells halfway decent stuff? Or looked at a dealer's used shelf? Ask yourself what you would do if you were a total newbie to sound reproduction. Where would you go to find out what's good and what's bad?

I don't hate Bose and I do not consider myself an audio snob. If something sounds good, I don't give a crap who makes it. Saying that, I can say that I have heard Bose products quite a few times over the past 30 years. To me, they are very poor sound quality.

Tom
 
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$3500. That would buy a good vintage amp for each set of speaker, and the speakers. Not top of the line vintage for sure, but still some good stuff. I would love to put a HT system togeather like that.
 
When's the last time you walked into a Bose store? How about the average (thankfully now gone) "high-end" audio salon?

...it's a tough admission, but I remember being in college and trying to buy a stereo down at a local high-end/specialty shop. I had a big pair of Cerwin-Vegas, and a Kenwood system that I was pretty proud of. Well, the guys in the shop just ripped my whole system apart...not kindly, not in the hopes of getting to the bottom of what I liked about it, just because they were real hifi experts. and I was just a college kid with $$ burning a hole in my pocket for upgrades. Like a fool a hung in there and walked out with a used Adcom GFA555 which made the big C-V's sound a bit better, but that's a story for another day.

On the other hand, not long after my hifi store nightmare, I took a roadtrip with a bunch of buddies up to Kittery ME to the Bose outlet. It was like a carnival. They ran a couple of fun demos, everyone was upbeat, and the atmosphere made you WANT to buy. No attitude, no audiophool BS, and plenty of people around to make sure your could make the speaker work with your gear. Two of my friends walked out of there speakers, and I completely understand.

I'm in the audio biz now, and I try to relay this story to as many salespeople as possible. Just cos you've got the good stuff, doesn't mean you can be a d*ck about it. Most of the people coming through the door have better things to worry about than some snotty hifi salesman, and will simply walk out of their stores...

just my $.02

JC
 
I had Bose 301s in college...wanted 901s...('79-'83) but I have to tell you...everywhere I looked, the sales people said "BOSE is the best..." I listened and did not agree...I liked the engineering of the 3-2-1 with sound coming from behind me and no speakers there but "Where's the beef???" No oooomph...then I gave some other systems a listen and...no more Bose...I also have to admit to a Bose Wave radio...and it sux in my opinion...I thought it was my ears had gone bad since everyone raves but I don't hear it...course I DO hear why my Klipsch and especially my K'Horns sound delicious...hmmmmm...marketing...GOTTA be the marketing.
Bill
 
I have to agree that Bose sucks for the money, but at the same time I admit that they do a good job of getting a lot of sound out of a little speaker. But IMO, just like with engines, there's no replacement for displacement; it's just not possible to get the sound of fullsize floorstanding or tower speakers out of sixpack size (or smaller) speaker. However, as has already been stated, excellent marketing combined with ignorant consumers has lead to Bose's popularity and success. Most people listening to Bose have no idea how good a system can sound, and no offense Gonzp, but if your Dad and his friends think that the Bose sounds better than the old stuff they had in the 70's they've either had a memory lapse or had crap equipment back then.
 
I think Redcoates hit the nail right on the head.Buying good equipment from an audio boutique can be very intimidating.And think of it this way-youre a young woman who wants to buy her first real home theatre setup,no audio experience.Ok,now you have the Receiver,the 5 speakers,the dvd player,the tv,and the subwoofer,and a ton of "monster cables",along with setup menus on your tv,your receiver,and your dvd player.Everyone you talk to gives you different advice on setup,and if youre confused,theres a handy 800 number to call,that only takes an hour to get advice from.
Now you buy a Bose Lifestyle system,open up the box,and theres a huge foldout poster with a big diagram and where all the wires go,and each wire is color coded,and it all goes into one pretty little console!My wife setup our Bose system(I know,I know.it was a long time ago.....)and it took her less than an hour while I was at work.
I know most boutiques will setup at home for you,but it costs a grip,and they are ALWAYS trying to sell you somthing more expensive.I love going into those stores,but I always get the bums rush,since there is always someone better dressed than me walking in.I think the problem doesnt belong to Bose.It belongs to the stores and manufacturers who dont try hard enough to connect to the general public,and make their products accessabile and attractive to everyone.
Jimmy
 
I went to the demo at the Bose store in the Mall by my house. They gave me a nice Bose coffee mug. That's the only Bose equipment I own.

I thought the stuff sounded pretty good. Just not the big deal everyone makes it out to be. And I didn't think it was much of a bargain! Of course, I'm cheap. I'm listening to my $6 Dynaco A25s through my $25 Kenwood KR 7400 as I write this.

My wife has a friend who just got divorced. She bought a wave radio. I have to admit, I was impressed. Not that is was the best sound I had ever heard, but that it sounded that good at that size. She was at our house and heard my Kenwood and Large Advents. She wants me to put a system together for her now.

It's just that people don't know any better. And I think the intimidation thing is for real. I haven't been in the high end store near my house. But I'd like to take my Dynacos over there and A/B them with some new stuff. It would be really interesting to see how much you would have to spend to beat them.

Take care,

Ed
 
I was getting my hair cut, and the barber had a really nice sounding stereo going. I could see in the mirror an old receiver (Kenwood or Pioneer) and a a pair of larger 80's vintage Paridim speakers. I comment on how good his system sounds - and he says its the Bose speakers that sound so good...now why would he tell me that? I can only think he wanted to impress me...I didn't mention that he actually had Paridim speakers, as he had scissors in his hands.
 
There's been more than one time I've been able to pick up some nice vintage speakers because someone "upgraded" to Bose.

They way I look at it, more power to Bose. Folks can get Bose and be happy and I can get their "old" stuff dirt cheap and be happy too. What a wonderful thing Bose is doing for us vintage collectors! :banana: :banana:
 
I for one don't believe Bose to be all that bad. Its just not that great...but hey, if people want to spend that kind of money without looking around its fine with me. The only thing that angers me is that people with Bose brag about it like its UNDENIABLY THE BEST! For the money, you could do a lot better, but you could also do worse.

The big problem is that it creates a paradigm. Once people believe Bose is the best, then nothing else compares because nothing else sounds exactly like it. Therefore, 'different from Bose' automatically begins to mean 'worse than Bose'.

One more thing... I was talking with a coworker Friday, and I was telling him about restoring old receivers and quality vintage stuff. He then makes this smug analogy to me. He says that 70s audio stuff was the best back then just like sundials and ancient ship navigating tools were state of the art in their time. (He had some brass replicas or something on his desk and was pointing to them!!)
 
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have some 901's...one ready to go, and the other still waiting for surround to get done. when they're done, i'm going to do my best to set them up as specified (only temorarily) to form my own first opinion. Probaly have to set them on 6 foot ladder near the corners of the room. I only listened to the 1 I had finished when it was sitting on my desk and had nothing to reflect off of...It is interesting though that even at Bose website under "reviews" is listed only one which was in 1993. I'll give an unbiased assessment when i get the second one re-fomed next week :)
 
Here's what < $3500.00 will buy you in a Best Buy or Circuit City:


Denon AVR-3805: 120 watts x 7 full-bandwidth rated • Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES, DTS Neo:6, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, ALPHA 24, HDCD, and Widescreen 7.1 processing • Auto Setup and Room EQ Adjust • Denon Link • 3-room/3-source A/V output • sixteen 192kHz/24-bit DACs • component video conversion • learning/multibrand touchscreen electro-luminescent remote.


Denon DVD-2910: Universal" player (DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-Audio) • DVI and HDMI output • 8MB buffer for quicker layer change • plays CDs, CD-Rs and CD-RWs, and MP3 & WMA CDs • digital bass management • built-in Dolby Digital/DTS decoder.


Polk RTi8 main towers: Frequency response 40-26,000 Hz • Dynamic Balance® drivers • Power Port

Polk Audio CSi3 center speaker: Voice-matched for RTi speakers • frequency response 65-26,000 Hz • Dynamic Balance® drivers

Polk Audio FXi3 rear speakers: Bass-reflex • frequency response 60-26,000 Hz • 45° angled driver arrays • Dynamic Balance® drivers • dipole/bipole switch • keyhole slots for wall-mounting


I'm all for companies spending big bucks to market their equipment, so long as they do not lie, decieve, or mislead the unimformed. BOSE has certainly made a living out of directly decieving the public. They do this by targeting the older folks (because most older folks "believe" what they read over doing some research - don't believe me? Watch 60 minutes or 20/20 sometime about all the marketing scams that target the elderly). Next they pay big bucks to be sold at AFEES outlets. Why? That's where a LOT of retired older folks shop. Next they spend gobs on "infomercials" about how their Acoustic Waveguide System sounds BETTER than a big home theater system! In their commercial they even "morph" a big system into their smaller system giving the illusion that their research has done the impossible - achieved that scale sound from a table-top radio! Amazing! Then they have magazine ads in Home and Garden, Cosmopolitan, Interior Decorating - why? Because studies have shown that the type of person who reads such magazines are the type of person who buys due to seeing the ads. Now, with all this marketing behind them, they are now targeting THE WORLD by selling in Best Buys, Circuit City's, BOSE outlets, and in malls - all where young and easily persuaded kids shop.

People are misled into believing that Amar Bose' scientists in their state of the art research facilities have their act together by having achieved the holy grail of audio - produce life-like sound out of 3.5" speakers. In fact, the only things their "scientists" have achieved is how to make the most inferior products, cut corners, vinyl particle board (cheap board), buy their speakers from the lowest bidder in China, and market it right to your door step with their money back guarantee infomercials. Amazing decietful practices if I ever heard it. Why do you think they NEVER publish specs on their speakers? Because their specs suck. And specs can say a lot about the performance of any given product (although by no means can it also say any given product sucks, this is still not the way to blindly sell your products). You would'nt buy food at the market if you could'nt read the specs on the side of that can, would you? Or buy a car if the salesman promised you it would perform to your wildest dreams. Specs are given to show a BASIS for which to compare your product over another. Without specs you have no way to start a comparison. "Well just listen to the speakers and let your own ears decide". Sorry, but people are fooled all the time, and with marketing already burned into your brain like newborns hunting for a McDonald's, having someone tell you this is better is no way to spend your hard-earned $3500.00! :thumbsdn:

Shame on Amar Bose for decietful practices. :naughty:
 
Wow I'm just burnin doin the Jimmy Neutron dance :banana: :banana: :banana:

Honestly Jimmy tell us how you really feel!! Did Amar pee in your cornflakes this morning? I'm no BOSE fan but isn't BOSE just doing what Americans strive to do? Flood the market with enough advertising to create a brand image people associate with quality and then sell the uninformed high cost low quality goods.


Mike
 
ProAc_Fan said:
Wow I'm just burnin doin the Jimmy Neutron dance :banana: :banana: :banana:

Honestly Jimmy tell us how you really feel!! Did Amar pee in your cornflakes this morning? I'm no BOSE fan but isn't BOSE just doing what Americans strive to do? Flood the market with enough advertising to create a brand image people associate with quality and then sell the uninformed high cost low quality goods.


Mike


:scratch2: Hmmmm mike, I guess you're right. Everything from NIKE selling $400.00 tennis shoes to Chevron gouging people for $2.79/gallon of gasoline, to BOSE and their Wave-guide radio.

Like I said, I'm all for advertising, but sometimes it just gets so ridiculas that it becomes comical. :lmao: Only in America!! :thmbsp:
 
Back in the early 70's Bose did have decent high quality hi-fidelity. Look at the 1801 pwr amp. One of the big boys in 73 in terms of pwr, low distortion etc... By the late 70's they were following alot of other companies down the path of lesser quality with inflated prices, while a small minority quietly stayed true to the serious listeners.
 
If any of you Bose haters ever had to do live speech reinforcement, you would have a VERY different view of "Got no high's,got no low's,must be Bose". I've done live sound for 30 years and there's not a speaker that can do a better job of getting gain before feedback and voice articulation than a Bose 401.
When you deal with a different space every day,you get a better perspective of what a "good" speaker really is. Just because a speaker sounds good, does not mean that it will "work" in every situation.
 
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Soundfitter said:
If any of you Bose haters ever had to do live speech reinforcement, you would have a VERY different view of "Got no high's,got no low's,must be Bose". I've done live sound for 30 years and there's not a speaker that can do a better job of getting gain before feedback and voice articulation than a Bose 401.
When you deal with a different space every day,you get a better perspective of what a "good" speaker really is. Just because a speaker sounds good, does not mean that it will "work" in every situation.


This is very true. BOSE is big in the sound reinforcement stage shows area. They are hard to beat there. I saw a picture of the "Bass-guide" cavity box they use in a few theaters - very awesome. It was huge and long, something in the order of 120 feet! It is said it can go flat to 10 Hz at 120 SPL!!!! BOSE also has a very serious group of egineers doing some incredible research for automobile suspension systems. They do have talent at BOSE, no doubt there. But in the home audio arena - they lack. Their proffessional line of speakers use real woofers, midranges, and tweeters. Their home hi-fidelity line use mostly a small driver to handle most all frequencies. Apples to apples please.
 
I'm not in the business of speech reinforcement, and Dr. Bose is obviously not in the real business of music reproduction. It wouldn't surprise me if any of the HOME use loudspeakers I like didn't sound all that good trying to fill Madison Square Garden. That's not what they were intended for. Now Dr. Bose' home audio loudspeakers sound pretty bad to me, in any home I've heard them in.
 
Most of the people coming through the door have better things to worry about than some snotty hifi salesman, and will simply walk out of their stores...

just my $.02
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You are 100% right. I'm in retail sales (not audio) and the FIRST and ONLY thing any successful saleman must learn is that people buy things for THEIR reasons--not yours!

Franz
 
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