Why do some great bands make it and some don't?

[SA-708]

I have a co-worker who is a bluegrass musician. She is currently part time here in the office, and is out on the road a fair amount, somewhat seasonal as there are a good number of outdoors bluegrass festivals that they play. She is in the back-up band for a 70+ year old bluegrass legend. They are successful within the bluegrass world, but not everyone gets to be Allison Krauss and break over into mainstream stardom. She's enjoying what she's doing (in both jobs), making decent money, but knows it could all change soon depending on her boss' health. She's not trying to make it big, but has enough connections in the bluegrass world to keep on playing no matter what.

There's all sorts of success available out there in music, in all sorts of genres, in all sorts of ways. Many don't involve the "music industry." Over on the mainstream popular music industry side of things, when was the last time an American rock band broke it big? All of the #1 singles on the Billboard chart last year were by solo acts, and 2016 isn't looking much better (the only "group" is a DJ duo). Signing a contract with a major label and having them "make you a star" isn't the way it works these days. Walk the Moon and X Ambassadors look to be something of exceptions with top 20 hits last year, but time will tell if they get past the "one hit wonder" stage. The music business ain't what it used to be.

 

[PureQuill]

I agree the music business isn’t what it used to be…. But somehow they keep coming up with new ways to screw artist.
The latest is the 360 deal!

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2013/07/02/threesixty/

https://www.thebalance.com/how-360-deals-in-the-music-industry-work-2460343

Or how to keep starving artist starving!
PQ

 

[Quadman2]

After reading those stats, "PQ"...I was astounded with the huge numbers!

I can see where getting into the NHL/CFL must be easier than making onto the big scene in the music world.

And, all the political /financial aspects that effect whether something hits the charts and by whom.

To date, thanks for ALL the opinions/POV's/ and the time taken to share your thoughts on this topic. I never have had the guts to approach my friends/relatives and get the inside on why they didn't make it.

Music is meant to be played and enjoyed, but it has morphed into something that is not what it was when it first started out.

Q2

 

[Northwinds]

Promotion, promotion and more promotion. Without it, bands don't stand a chance

 

[grillebilly]

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.
H. L. Mencken

 

[PureQuill]

Promotion, promotion and more promotion. Without it, bands don't stand a chance

Along with touring..more touring…and endless touring

And while payola was supposed to be outlawed by congress..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola

The practice is still alive and well & just has a new name …Enter “The Radio Plugger!”
https://www.thebalance.com/radio-plugger-career-profile-2460642

Always somebody with zero musical talent reaching into the artist generated revenue pool and more than willing take more than their share all under the pretense of “helping” the artist realize their dreams!
Pay to play venue owners,promoters & booking agents.
Pay to get played radio pluggers.
Then the usual assortment of agents,managers, lawyers & record company exec’s.

I love creating,and performing music, and working with musicians to help them realize their artistic vision!
I also equally & absolutely hate the music business..and all of the remoras that come with it!
PQ

As Hunter S. Thompson one brilliantly said…

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There’s also a negative side.”

 

[marqueemoon]

Steve Albini's take if you can handle a little profanity:

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

 

[Farmhand]

if by "make it" we mean becoming a household name or social phenemenon, then some great bands never make it!
There are plenty of bands who release one massively popular album, whether its their first or fifth, and can't do it twice. The first album is full of songs that they've been playing for a while, are their best of the bunch, and are proven crowd favorites. They release the album, and suddenly they're a household name.
Now they're locked into a contract, on tour, in the media spotlight and under tremendous pressure to recreate what they've just accomplished- but in a shorter amount of time while their lives have been turned upside down. The label has advanced them the money to do it all, and they have to pay that money back. Its a recipe for disaster.
A friend of mine used to be a scout for a major label, and he quit that job because he couldnt take the guilt of roping young, promising artists, willing to do anything to make music for a living, into contracts that he knew were tailor made to serve the label at the expense of the artist.
That's why its possible to get a deal, make a record, do a tour, and end up working at Starbucks to pay off what your band owes the label.

 

[Farmhand]

Sugarloaf, for example, with Green Eyed Lady. Or King Harvest with Dancing in the Moonlight. I have a major soft spot for one hit wonders, all the way up to Gotye (remember him?)

A former coworker played lead guitar in a band that got signed by Phil Spector... Just as "River Deep, Mountain High" came out and his career fell apart. Yes, luck plays a factor.

 

[marqueemoon]

^Same reason Nick Drake never really became popular in his lifetime.

 

[PureQuill]

Steve Albini's take if you can handle a little profanity:

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

Thanks! Wow what a great read!
What profanity? Thats just R&R jargon. LOL
Article is from the 90’s…nothing changes simply change out the decade and the characters.. the plot & the outcome is pretty much the same.
And is still happing today!

The music industry has been ripping off artist since day one
Most of the old blues men & jazz artist got screwed
Even mobbed up guys like Sinatra, Frankie Avalon & Tommy James
James is just one example check out his book
Me, the Mob, and the Music: One Helluva Ride with Tommy James & The Shondells

When dealing with Colonel Parker & Elvis it was “standard procedure” to rip off songwriters by demanding co-writing credits..
Dolly Parton said no to giving Elvis 1/2 the rights to “I will always love you."
Smart move Dolly!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Always_Love_You
When the 1974 recording of the song was reaching number one on the country charts, Elvis Presley indicated that he wanted to cover the song.
Parton was interested until Presley’s manager, Colonel Tom Parker, told her that it was standard procedure for the songwriter to sign over half of the publishing rights to any song Elvis recorded.
Parton refused and that decision is credited with helping to make her many millions of dollars in royalties from the song over the years.
Yep that Dolly Parton is a smart woman!

Cheers
PQ

 

[PureQuill]

I can add one more dimention......A favourite artist and friend of mine Clifford T Ward failed to turn from an up and coming artist into a much bigger phenomina ....why ? He was scared of public performance and refused to tour or perform to an audience ....he went on to make many excellent albums throughout the 70s and 80s but without live performance to back them up ...he never became more than a fringe or cult artist.

Harry Nilsson did OK not touring..but he had songwriting royalties to live on.
Nilsson was one of the few major pop-rock recording artists of his era to achieve significant commercial success without ever performing major public concerts or undertaking regular tours. He is known for the charting singles "Everybody's Talkin'" (1969), "Without You" (1971), and "Coconut" (1972). Nilsson also wrote the song "One" (1968), made famous by the rock band Three Dog Night.[3]

His honors include Grammy Awards for two of his recordings; Best Contemporary Vocal Performance, Male in 1970 for "Everybody's Talkin'", a prominent song in the 1969 film Midnight Cowboy, and Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male in 1973 for "Without You". In 2015, he was voted No. 62 in Rolling Stone's list of "The 100 Greatest Songwriters of All Time".[4]

PQ

 

[John James]

Very interesting thread!

 

[gggvan]

My short answer is greedy corporate industry executives with no taste or interest in music....

If your definition of making it is major label success, money, etc. Then I agree. With major labels there's no appetite for risk, same crap over and over.

 

[TheCityBeef]

I meet band after band and honestly, when it come to writing original music, 75% fail instantly. when the idea of recording the first cd comes around that normally kills the band or sends them back to just doing covers when they give up on writing.

Disney is in control of most of the mainstream music as well.

 

[Pio1980]

Lucky are those who find joy making a living doing something they love, and it doesn't take living in a mansion with a fleet of luxury cars.
Love this guy, never get tired of linking this vid.

 

[Djcoolray]

Beyond what a group thinks is cool, cool factor or the lack of it will reduce any amount of effort no matter how good the talent or organizational expertise !!

 

[ooba tooba]

Can you stand driving around the country in a sprinter van for 18 months with 4 other guys?

 

[Quadman2]

Excellent discussion, all!

If I may add one more dimension, I've always wondered how the factor of sounding different/unique has played a part in the struggle to be different from the rest of the pack. So many groups today sound alike. I do know some strive for that tone/style that sets themselves apart. Some times I believe they end up so strange they lose the mainstream population that they are striving for. Another reason for bands not making it?

Hope the above makes sense?

Q2

 

[TheCityBeef]

Excellent discussion, all!

If I may add one more dimension, I've always wondered how the factor of sounding different/unique has played a part in the struggle to be different from the rest of the pack. So many groups today sound alike. I do know some strive for that tone/style that sets themselves apart. Some times I believe they end up so strange they lose the mainstream population that they are striving for. Another reason for bands not making it?

Hope the above makes sense?

Q2

I'd say you need to be unique but still relate to your crowd or following, whatever that may be.
Things that are overcomplicated, can go way over peoples heads and they cant relate.
some styles of music are not setup for dancing as well.
Song selection based on your crowd or following is pretty important.

Its easy for some bands to get a little selfish, they want to prove something and neglect that mob rules. There are lots of songs I'd like to play out but the people wont relate to them at all They've never heard of them and people love songs that take them back, bring up old memories.