Why or why not BSR McDonald Turntables ?

[Djcoolray]

I’d say that you can get better sound from selling the two BSR’s and get a Garrard easily.....

Do a check on Wikipedia Garrard then check out the different models on eBay and you will see they don’t cost much. But sound wise the Garrard is ten times the table. I’ve got an old Garrard Type A with a Shure/Ampex cartridge that sounds better than it should.

 

[gadget73]

Depends on the Garrard. They made some crap too.

 

[dshoaf]

Both Garrard and BSR competed for the 'compact stereo' business in the late 60 and early 70s. They sold thousands of them as stand-alone products as well. They had good dealer margin for the entry level stereo system. All of the entry level products were mediocre performers but were simple to operate, allowed for stacking of LPs and were very reliable. The brands became synonymous with those characteristics although the older Garrard audiophile knew Garrard for their top-end tables.

BSR and Garrard attempted to move upscale in the 70s with the 810 and Zero100, respectively. These were more complex 'tables but, frankly, only served to compete with the likes of Dual for most consumer-level audio guys and were priced accordingly.

I hated to see a BSR 810 coming back for service as I ran a BSR and Garrard warranty repair station back then. The Zero100s were a bit more reliable and less complex than the BSR for servicing.

I have a BSR 810 myself now but it is used as a record cleaning machine.

Cheers,

David

 

[Pio1980]

Both Garrard and BSR competed for the 'compact stereo' business in the late 60 and early 70s. They sold thousands of them as stand-alone products as well. They had good dealer margin for the entry level stereo system. All of the entry level products were mediocre performers but were simple to operate, allowed for stacking of LPs and were very reliable. The brands became synonymous with those characteristics although the older Garrard audiophile knew Garrard for their top-end tables.

BSR and Garrard attempted to move upscale in the 70s with the 810 and Zero100, respectively. These were more complex 'tables but, frankly, only served to compete with the likes of Dual for most consumer-level audio guys and were priced accordingly.

I hated to see a BSR 810 coming back for service as I ran a BSR and Garrard warranty repair station back then. The Zero100s were a bit more reliable and less complex than the BSR for servicing.

I have a BSR 810 myself now but it is used as a record cleaning machine.

Cheers,

David

The Garrard Lab 80?

 

[dshoaf]

Agreed, PIO, by the time of the compact stereos, Lab 80s and similar models had been around since the 50s in various forms so Garrard was already a well-respected brand. That got leveraged as they started producing high-volume, lower performance changers that went into them. I remember many of the original KLH compact stereos carrying a Garrard on top. Scott and Fisher did the same thing.

I don't recall how BSR appeared but they were also appearing in many compact systems at the dawn of the 70s when I got involved as a repair guy.

BTW, BSR paid a warranty repair center $4.00 flat fee to repair a low-end changer. You had to order any parts, pay for them, then fill out a warranty repair form, mail it back to BSR along with the invoice for the parts and they'd cut you a check for the amount. Needless to say, I didn't like seeing a BSR returned for repair. Fortunately, the BSR changers in compact stereos were the responsibility of the vendor of the whole unit.

Cheers,

David

 

[noogies]

Agreed, PIO, by the time of the compact stereos, Lab 80s and similar models had been around since the 50s in various forms so Garrard was already a well-respected brand. That got leveraged as they started producing high-volume, lower performance changers that went into them. I remember many of the original KLH compact stereos carrying a Garrard on top. Scott and Fisher did the same thing.

I don't recall how BSR appeared but they were also appearing in many compact systems at the dawn of the 70s when I got involved as a repair guy.

BTW, BSR paid a warranty repair center $4.00 flat fee to repair a low-end changer. You had to order any parts, pay for them, then fill out a warranty repair form, mail it back to BSR along with the invoice for the parts and they'd cut you a check for the amount. Needless to say, I didn't like seeing a BSR returned for repair. Fortunately, the BSR changers in compact stereos were the responsibility of the vendor of the whole unit.

Cheers,

David

However ... the lower-end the BSR, the less prone it was to breakage, would you not agree?

 

[dshoaf]

Oh yes. Those low-end BSR's and Garrard's both took a lickin' and kept on tickin'. Generally, they were so cheap that it wasn't worth repairing.

Cheers,

David

 

[Djcoolray]

That’s cool....

But if you find any Garrard Type A that in good shape and use a Stanton 500 or a Shure 44 there will be no comparison in sound quality wise. Fact is, growing up in the sixties I don’t remember seeing a BSR in anything else except in compact stereos and cheap consoles.

 

[Guest126]

The BSRs were more durable and crude. The Garrards, while plentiful, were considered better quality and auidio grade in sound. There were a few low end Garrards that were a little embarrassing, but most Garrards were good performers.

 

[Guest126]

Both Garrard and BSR competed for the 'compact stereo' business in the late 60 and early 70s. They sold thousands of them as stand-alone products as well. They had good dealer margin for the entry level stereo system. All of the entry level products were mediocre performers but were simple to operate, allowed for stacking of LPs and were very reliable. The brands became synonymous with those characteristics although the older Garrard audiophile knew Garrard for their top-end tables.

BSR and Garrard attempted to move upscale in the 70s with the 810 and Zero100, respectively. These were more complex 'tables but, frankly, only served to compete with the likes of Dual for most consumer-level audio guys and were priced accordingly.

I hated to see a BSR 810 coming back for service as I ran a BSR and Garrard warranty repair station back then. The Zero100s were a bit more reliable and less complex than the BSR for servicing.

I have a BSR 810 myself now but it is used as a record cleaning machine.

Cheers,

David

The Garrard Zero and its derivative platters were outstanding players during the mid seventies. Often they don't get the credit that they deserve IMO.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

BSRs are easy to repair, and are actually fairly durable, but they really don't perform very well at all, except for a few of the better modes that used MM cartridges like the 510 and 610. The cheaper ones with ceramic cartridges range anywhere from mediocre/somewhat tolerable to complete crap. The ones with plastic platters are the worst. They rumble badly, usually have noticeable Wow and Flutter, and nearly always run way too fast.

Right now, I have one of the cheap ones with the ceramic cartridge and plastic platter in a later model Magnavox console. After having gotten used to a real turntable, it almost pains me to listen to the thing. After I overhauled it, it ran probably a good 5% too fast, if not more. I couldn't tolerate that at all, so I removed material from the motor capstan until it ran at the correct speed. The W&F is still there, though and it's terribly annoying to me.

Some people say they destroy records, but I think that is a little overblown. It's pretty much a non-issue on the ones with MM cartridges. The ones with the slim headshell and Tetrad ceramic cartridge honestly aren't that bad, either. Mine is set at 4 grams, and tracks well with a new stylus. I wouldn't play expensive/rare records with it, but I have no problem playing common records on it.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Seconded. The 510 and 610 of the standard BSR/McDonald changer line are reasonably good changers, have 4 pole motors, metal platters, and 1/2" cartridge mounts and proper counterweights. The deluxe 810 is superb but finicky to adjust and service. A good, easy to maintain and service changer. Not fancy, but perfectly fine. Much better than the Garrards post Zero 100, and especially the abominations called Unimech and the DC Matsushita motored models.

 

[Pio1980]

How do the Panasonic changers compare?

 

[Blast]

My first three turntables were Realistic branded BSR's: 44 (ceramic cartridge that I later replaced with magnetic), Lab 24 and Lab 50. All between 1970 and 1974.

I started outgrowing the Shack in the late 70's and tried other brands. But, there will always be a warm regard for those first BSR's. They were worth their selling prices and taught me the beginning lessons of turntable ownership.

 

[bangsezmax]

I had a couple of 810s come through the shop. Got them both working and sold them. The 810 is one of those models where it's REALLY handy to have a working one nearby to look at in order to fix one that's misbehaving. Seems like most of the problems I was working on had to do with the rotating ring around the platter bearing with various bits and bobs there being misaligned. Nice decks when they're working properly, up there with the ELAC Miracord 50H.

I have already expressed my grudging admiration for the standard BSR changer. They are the cockroaches of '70s audio.

 

[bangsezmax]

How do the Panasonic changers compare?

I take it you don't mean the millions of Panasonic-all-in-ones with the BSRs in them? I grew up with one of those. Ours had an 8-track player too.

If you mean the actual Matsushita-manufactured changers in the later all-in-ones like the silver plastic SE-1510, those are okay. Seems like they copped a lot of the BSR design elements, but mostly plastic. The idler wheel is plastic with an o-ring that's replaceable, which is kinda interesting. Haven't had any trouble fixing them, so they're okay in my book.

 

[Mike Before]

The few I've worked on were the low end changers from the mid 70s. One with a plastic platter, the others with a metal platter so light you could use it as a frisbee. Easy to make it work and they all functioned OK but the cheesy plastic arm and ceramic cartridge were a big drawback for performance. Not really worse than other low end changers if I have to be honest, but thats not a high bar.

I don't expect they are any worse to records than anything else, provided the stylus isn't trashed and it doesn't have pennies taped to the headshell.

Also consider I have a small fleet of Garrard record changers, so I'm not exactly a turntable snob.

I just bought a Garrard AT-6 with a magnetic cartridge and idler wheel. I feel like I have "arrived" because of the real wood. Lol

 

[noogies]

I just bought a Garrard AT-6 with a magnetic cartridge and idler wheel. I feel like I have "arrived" because of the real wood. Lol

That magnetic idler wheel may prove problematic ...

 

[Tedrick]

My Dad had a BSR 810 Transcription 'table when I was a teenager. It made pretty decent sound, but I will say that it always had a low-level rumble...not real bad or anything, but you could always here it between tracks. I think it was probably motor noise getting into the playback chain via the idler wheel.

Dad gave the 'table to me some years ago after it had been out of use for a long time. By the time I got around to messing with it, it needed more work that I wanted to put in to it (and I had just gotten my first VPI), so I gutted it to use as a 'lazy susan' for cleaning records. This bloody 'table had hundreds of nylon plastic gears, cams, and levers underneath, all for the complex autoplay and changer functions.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

The BSR 610 upwards are perfectly good changers. And reasonably easy to service once you get the old grease off which turns to cement. This class of BSR has 4 pole motors, good tonearms with proper counterweights, 1/2" cartridge slide mounts, and anti skating adjustments. Not to mention metal platters of reasonably good quality and some weight. The upper end BSR changers are durable, easily maintainable, and perfectly fine performers. Hardly junk. A lot better than Garrard Unimech changers.

 

[JH Magnecord]

Because: you can find, for example, units like a BENJAMIN/MIRACORD 770H (almost Lenco-esque in what its build attempted to copy...much moreso than anything DUAL ever made) or a GARRARD SL95B (what I consider the last of the "tank-like" Garrards -from 1968- and far better than their stuff from the '70s; excepting the Zero 100).

Both of these changers are under the radar price-wise and would, frankly, make the BSR look like Crosley.