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Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by Mopic5, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. Grainger49

    Grainger49 Old Fart

    Messages:
    6,572
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    The poly-vinly-alcohol is very thin when it drys. It is like a facial mask. It is also clear. But taking a 1" wide piece of masking tape and rubbing it firmly on the surface of the PVA makes it lift in a single piece, well, sometimes a single piece, sometimgs 4 pieces.

    You get the picture.
     

     

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  2. Mopic5

    Mopic5 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    This is the last example of too thick of a glue application. I’ve since cut back on the amount and haven’t had to deal with this.

    [​IMG]

    Another undried band after 6 hours-

    [​IMG]

    Small “break out” of wet glue from band during peel. These were small and thin so I just let them dry where they lay.

    [​IMG]

    After an hour… flecked them off completely with an index card.

    [​IMG]

    Another, more “traditional” use of wood glue for cleaning vinyl. Vacuum chamber RCM.
     
  3. Bigerik

    Bigerik AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,835
    Location:
    I've Been Everywhere
    Well, I'll be dinged!
    It actually worked. I had gotten a copy of Harry Nilssons "Harry" a few months. Eyeballing it, it looked mint. Sounded horrible tho! Heartbreakingly so. I had given it a manual cleaning (No RCM), but it made no difference. This was about the noisest record I have ever heard.
    Well, tried the glue trick today. Was a piece of cake. Took about 3 hours to dry. Came off in one big piece. Gave it a spin and it is DEAD quiet. I mean, hardly any noise at all. Went from the noisiest to one of the quietest records I have.
    Wow!
    Two thumbs up on this tweak!
     
  4. outlawmws

    outlawmws On the Run

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    30 grams is a weight measurement. Has anyone ever converted this to a volume measurement? Say a tablespoon? Or a table spoon, + a tea spoon?

    I could see using a dedicated set (from the kitchen) for this, letting the residue dry and peeling it just as you do the record's coating at the same time...
     
  5. goofytwoshoes

    goofytwoshoes New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Small-town Ontario, Canada
    A few years ago I got a pile of acetates, some of which were quite dirty. I was reluctant to use normal record cleaning fluids and brushes. Pure water didn't even begin to remove the dirt. I found an online post about coating acetates with rubber cement. Bottles of rubber cement have a brush built into the lid, which makes it easy to apply a coating. I brushed on a thin coating, let it air dry for several minutes, then rolled it off. The dirt came with it, leaving an acetate that looked and sounded new. I never thought of using rubber cement on normal LPs, but after reading this thread I will give it a try on the next noisy LP that I come across.
     
  6. jeffn

    jeffn Mid-Fi Crisis

    Messages:
    1,589
    Location:
    Australia
    Assume thats it sthe same density as water.......... 30grams = 30ml volume. Close enough.
     

     

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  7. Mopic5

    Mopic5 Super Member

    Messages:
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    BigErik,
    Glad this worked for you and Harry. Did you have an old turntable to make the application on or did you spread the glue around with the record unmoving. I'm curious whether the application needs the spin for a uniform film.

    Goofytwoshoes,
    I'd use wood glue over the rubber cement. My gut feeling is that the distillants in rubber cement might prove harmful to the the plasticides of the record. I'm not a chemist, and I don't know this for a fact - but anything that is strong enough to require ventillation maybe unfriendly to vinyl . But then again, if you've got one to sacrifice on the glue alter - offer it up and let us know how it goes.

    - Mario
     
  8. outlawmws

    outlawmws On the Run

    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    The Badlands
    If thats a decent estimate, then its = to 1 oz. or 2 table spoons. :scratch2:
     
  9. Grainger49

    Grainger49 Old Fart

    Messages:
    6,572
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    I am with Mario. If I remember rubber cement, the carrier is really punjent. I bet it would melt an LP.
     
  10. Dynacophil

    Dynacophil I ain't Phil, I'm 'phile

    Messages:
    4,476
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Hi

    i recycled the Discofilm stuff i told you last week about a second time today - and took some pix...


    In the first pic u can see the glas i stuffed the dried old films i collected suffed in.

    [​IMG]

    then i filled ~400ml demineralized water ontop of the stuff!

    [​IMG]

    The mix i this time put into the Microwave - medium power, 4 minutes...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    afterwards agitating it a while with a spoon.... and again, with every agitating period it gets better, the left is before the first agitating period, the right pic shows it after 3 x 3min of agitating the glue.

    [​IMG]

    this is the record on the base with the applicator on it

    [​IMG]

    the next pic shows the filled applicator with the amount for one LPside

    [​IMG]

    after turning the applicator one time slowly in circle over the record this is the result

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    after drying off (3-4 hours depending on the amount i used...) i peel it off. i don't need strips, i get a start with fingernail.

    Best, Helge
     

    Attached Files:

  11. rulerboyz

    rulerboyz AK Member

    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Cornwall Ontario Canada
    Here's a type of glue that you want to avoid using for this:

    Crayola Washable Project Glue


    I tried it, and it leaves a residue behind in the grooves after you have peeled the dried mask off.
     

     

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  12. Dynacophil

    Dynacophil I ain't Phil, I'm 'phile

    Messages:
    4,476
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Hi

    thats no good :) even if it is washable, its no use, i could wash the record at once. the glue-thing should make no washing necessary in addition.
    I tell u, check Discofilm out :)

    i use one bottle the 3rd time now, its getting fewer, but it works as the first time...

    Helge
     
  13. Mopic5

    Mopic5 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    I'd stick to wood glue or spring for the Discofilm that Helge suggests with his ingenious reclaiming method.
    As for the amount of wood glue per side, Jeffn’s conversion is right on the money - 30 ml. Which, if you have a bottle of NyQuil hanging about, is the full dosage line of the plastic cup that comes with it.
    In application, a laminated card seems to work better as a spreader than an old credit card. I use an old turntable @ 33 rpm – but this is a luxury that many may not have and may not be necessary. I suspect a platter size piece of wood with a 5/16” carriage bolt would make a fine hand spinning application jig.
    -Mario
     
  14. rulerboyz

    rulerboyz AK Member

    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Cornwall Ontario Canada
    I also found that it is necessary to make sure you that the layer extends from the outer edge of the record to right where the label begins. Otherwise you end up with stray pieces of glue on the inner ring that are difficult to get off. Only trouble then of course is that you are more likely to spread some glue on the label by accident.
     
  15. Mopic5

    Mopic5 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Yup. Loose ends or islands of glue in the run-out won't lift with the peel. Making sure these islands get attached to the main "puddle" is what you want to do. Back-swiping this area after the main puddle is put down with just touch more glue - and bringing it up toward the label as Rulerboyz attests, captures these strays.
     
  16. stuckinthe70s

    stuckinthe70s Active Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    The Valley of the Sun
    Just wondering if anyone else has tried this and had it work out to be nothing more than a great big PITA? I've done the procedure on 2 different albums, the first time the glue was probably a bit thin and was a royal pain to peel. No big pieces, just a lot of small ones with many fragments left over. The second time I used more glue, not excessive, but definately a heavier coating. Left it dry for almost 3 1/2 hrs, and had the same result trying to peel it. Fortunately, I have one of those Groovmasters, so I was able to clamp it up and remove the remaining bits under the faucet.

    The end result in both cases was- the albums sounded exactly the same after the glue treatment as before. No improvement whatsoever. They weren't scratched, but just sounded noisy. One of them had a spot that made a big "thump" sound for about 3 revolutions, and it's still there. But I don't see anything at all on the surface with bright light. So I won't bother with the hassle of this again.

    Thanks to the person who first posted about this, I really had hopes of it working. Glad it works for some of you. I'm always open to new ideas regarding vinyl care, I guess this one just isn't for me. Seems like there must be a better way of doing this.
     

     

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  17. kstaskiewicz

    kstaskiewicz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    OK, about the discofilm... since it is water soluble/recyclable, has no smell and seems to be such a guarded secret... perhaps it contains gelatin???
    Kris
     
  18. rulerboyz

    rulerboyz AK Member

    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Cornwall Ontario Canada

    My latest try at this was also a disaster. It was because I tried a new glue:

    Welbond: More Than Great Glue. (Do not use this glue!!!)

    It's a white glue that looks like typical woodglue, however it did not work anything like the original glue I tried. Once it had cured, it would not pull off in one piece, and it became evident that I would not be able to get it all off. So I tried putting on more glue. This time it was even worse. I ended up having to put the album in a tub of hot water. Now that album's probably scrapped. You're in trouble if your glue cures into a silky smooth film that is reluctant to want to peel of easily in one piece.


    The only glue so far that I've liked was Lepage Carpenter's glue.
     
  19. mjr4077au

    mjr4077au Active Member

    Messages:
    475
    Location:
    Kincumber NSW, Australia
    The only PVA glue I know over here is called "Selley's Aquadere". Selley's make heaps of stuff over here.

    I but a really dodgy maxi and if it screws it then who really cares - its not getting any better.
     
  20. REDone

    REDone Super Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Just trying it so I will let you know

    Tried yesterday with PVA adhesive (not sold as wood glue) which was a lot cheaper but took a long time to dry .. I got impatient at the last minute & decided to peel off when there were still small white patches left..
    Peeled ok except for the white patches .. so redid again overnight now waiting patiently ........

    The record is a duplicate I have, & was very dirty with lots of surface noise before I started .. in fact so bad I avoided playing it
     

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