Yet another Dual 1019 Thread - Just picked one up

Tim D

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
For me it keeps raining Dual Turntables. Why do these Dual's come to me so cheap? Then I have to take them in like lost puppies. This time it was a Dual 1019.

I was at the local old style electronics parts store and they have a room where they resell vintage equipment. I pass through once in a while. Occasionally, they have something interesting. I happened to notice the addition of the Dual 1019, but I was going to pass it by because I have so many Duals of other models already. On the way past the counter toward the door the owner said, "You didn't see anything you wanted to buy today?" I asked him, "How much for the Dual 1019?" He replied, "$59 and the Shure cartridge is worth that much." I asked back, "Does it work?" He responded, "Yes." I couldn't open my wallet fast enough.

Anyway, it has the German plinth and the original dust cover in great condition and the original Shure M80E-D19 cartridge. It came with a new stylus (and the old stylus). It is missing the 33 changer spindle.

I've got it home now and I hooked it up and put in the new stylus. It sounds pretty good. Here are some comments...

- I had to balance the arm. It didn't appear to be zeroed at all. I would have thought the shop would have set that. Currently I have it set at 1.5g.
- I can hear the platter spinning (or the idler - I'm not sure). This seems to be mechanical sound and doesn't come through the pickup as far as I can tell.
- The queuing level drops it without any delay. Is that right for one of these? Isn't there any hydraulic fluid in the queuing for this model? It was kind of harsh when I tried to manually drop it.
- The auto function starts fine, but it seems to drop it a little deep into the run-in track. It wasn't quite into the song, but didn't look quite right. I'm hoping there is an adjustment for that.
- I need to open it up and check whether the lube has been refreshed. If not I'll take care of it.
- Needs a general cleaning, but it's not all that dirty. Just not up to my standards.
- I let it run through one side of an LP and it stopped on its' own with no problems. Three or four minutes later I went over to put on another record and it was still coasting down!
- Need to check the speed. I don't have a strobe so I'll have to see if I have any light bulbs that will work with the strobe disk I have stored away.
- The headshell is a bit pitted. If I take a picture with the flash turned on it looks horrible. That's not how it really looks, but it does show it could use some help. I'll see if there is any other cosmetic issues when I clean it.


Anyway, I'm reading about this cartridge. It's a funky spring loaded gizmo which was supposed to help tracking for dance floors or on boats or what have you. I've read some comments that say it might be like an M44 or M55 or M75. It would be nice to find out which one. It will factor into whether I'll want to get a better cart.

Here are some pics. I'll be tuning it up in the coming days and weeks.

IMG_0763.JPG IMG_0759.JPG IMG_0758.JPG IMG_0757.JPG IMG_0755.JPG IMG_0752.JPG IMG_0750.JPG
 
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I own a 1019 that I purchased new in 1967 for $129 with an Empire cart. It was overhauled by "Fixmydual" about 5 yrs ago. That turntable sitting on the angled walnut base is a real thing of beauty.
 
Congrats!

Regarding the lubes I would suggest to use:

sewing machine oil for the motor

10w30 (wet clutch oil!) for the idler and shaft which pulls the idler into the motor pulley

very high viscosity for the main bearing/spindle shaft - I am currently using 150 viscosity chainsaw oil (not engine oil) and it works perfectly. Most users noticed that using high viscosity oil quiets the bearing and while it reduces the spin down time it kills the amount of vibrations transfered to the platter. With 150 viscosity I get 97sec spin down time. The dual 1019 has a high torque motor which should power through everything you throw at it.

also if you hear any bearing noise check the spindle bearing housing - sometimes when trying to open it happens that the housing deforms slightly which causes the metal washers to make contact with the housing which will cause "bearing noise". It should spin dead quiet.

Regarding the motor: if the copper disc has wear on both sides, you should make a replacement one. Many factories with CNC machines can make that for you. It is essential to have a clean copper disc, otherwise you will have motor noise.

Also dressing the idler (0,5mm) should be enough to remove the outer edge of hardened rubber. The idler usually makes some noise without the platter, once the platter is installed the noise should disappear.

For the mechanism lube I tried Molykote paste G plus, but I would suggest using alvania.

For the strobe I used the light of my mains cable extensions, works very well in a dark room.

You can find PDF on how to service the 1019 here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=65030
 
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Congrats!

Regarding the lubes I would suggest to use:

sewing machine oil for the motor

10w30 (wet clutch oil!) for the idler and shaft which pulls the idler into the motor pulley

very high viscosity for the main bearing/spindle shaft - I am currently using 150 viscosity chainsaw oil (not engine oil) and it works perfectly. Most users noticed that using high viscosity oil quiets the bearing and while it reduces the spin down time it kills the amount of vibrations transfered to the platter. With 150 viscosity I get 97sec spin down time. The dual 1019 has a high torque motor which should power through everything you throw at it.

also if you hear any bearing noise check the spindle bearing housing - sometimes when trying to open it happens that the housing deforms slightly which causes the metal washers to make contact with the housing which will cause "bearing noise". It should spin dead quiet.

Regarding the motor: if the copper disc has wear on both sides, you should make a replacement one. Many factories with CNC machines can make that for you. It is essential to have a clean copper disc, otherwise you will have motor noise.

Also dressing the idler (0,5mm) should be enough to remove the outer edge of hardened rubber. The idler usually makes some noise without the platter, once the platter is installed the noise should disappear.

For the mechanism lube I tried Molykote paste G plus, but I would suggest using alvania.

For the strobe I used the light of my mains cable extensions, works very well in a dark room.

You can find PDF on how to service the 1019 here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=65030

Thanks Solist,

I have the lubes including the Alvania. The detail you give though is informative. Thank you very much. I'll be looking at it in the coming days. I'll probably re-do any previous lube attempts - if any and check where the rubber meets the road (idler).

Here are some pics of the lubes I have on hand including the Alvania. I have a gallon of chainsaw oil - not pictured. I figure I can do several turntables with that gallon.

IMG_0646.JPG IMG_0640.JPG
 
So is it normal on 1019 to have no damping on the manual queue lever? When I dropped the needle - it dropped - SMACK! Or is there silicon damping fluid that I need to look at replacing?
 
There is silicone damping fluid. This machine doesn't use the typical rod type assembly, it is more of a rotational action. Anyway, I did a 1215 which used the same type of damper and used 500k cst silicone. The 500 was too heavy and I had to water it down with silicone oil. I would try something like 100k CST.
 
IIRC the manual cueing on a 1019 is damped but the automatic setdown is not. That’s a real beauty there, nice that it has the original dust cover too. I’ve got one somewhere around here with a Grundig base plus I bought a Danish Modern wedge style base for it (another project for winter).
 
Thanks guys. Really appreciate the responses. This will be the first time I work on the manual damping. I'll read up.

So far I think I need to do the following:
- General cleaning
- Removal of old lube and re-lube. Might include the motor in this too.
- Address the manual queuing damping fluid
- Maybe check if the lead-in on the 33's can be adjusted (for automatic operation). It's just dropping slightly inward.
- Look into the funky spring loaded cartridge a little more. Need to determine if I use this one or upgrade.
- There is a slight hum. I'll see about cleaning the cartridge sled and maybe look at replacing the RCA's. (But the RCA's don't look oxidized at all.)
- Print out the owners and service manuals
- Look into setting the anti-skate. Haven't done that yet.
 
I would probably upgrade or at least change the cartridge. And I recommend the molded aftermarket cartridge sleds that you can get on eBay. I've bought a couple and they work great.
 
I would probably upgrade or at least change the cartridge. And I recommend the molded aftermarket cartridge sleds that you can get on eBay. I've bought a couple and they work great.

Just looked and saw a sled for $54.95 + $5.00 shipping. That total is $0.95 more than I paid for the whole TT (neglecting the tax I paid). Ouch!
 
For me it keeps raining Dual Turntables. Why do these Dual's come to me so cheap? Then I have to take them in like lost puppies. This time it was a Dual 1019.

I was at the local old style electronics parts store and they have a room where they resell vintage equipment. I pass through once in a while. Occasionally, they have something interesting. I happened to notice the addition of the Dual 1019, but I was going to pass it by because I have so many Duals of other models already. On the way past the counter toward the door the owner said, "You didn't see anything you wanted to buy today?" I asked him, "How much for the Dual 1019?" He replied, "$59 and the Shure cartridge is worth that much." I asked back, "Does it work?" He responded, "Yes." I couldn't open my wallet fast enough.

Anyway, it has the German plinth and the original dust cover in great condition and the original Shure M80E-D19 cartridge. It came with a new stylus (and the old stylus). It is missing the 33 changer spindle.

I've got it home now and I hooked it up and put in the new stylus. It sounds pretty good. Here are some comments...

- I had to balance the arm. It didn't appear to be zeroed at all. I would have thought the shop would have set that. Currently I have it set at 1.5g.
- I can hear the platter spinning (or the idler - I'm not sure). This seems to be mechanical sound and doesn't come through the pickup as far as I can tell.
- The queuing level drops it without any delay. Is that right for one of these? Isn't there any hydraulic fluid in the queuing for this model? It was kind of harsh when I tried to manually drop it.
- The auto function starts fine, but it seems to drop it a little deep into the run-in track. It wasn't quite into the song, but didn't look quite right. I'm hoping there is an adjustment for that.
- I need to open it up and check whether the lube has been refreshed. If not I'll take care of it.
- Needs a general cleaning, but it's not all that dirty. Just not up to my standards.
- I let it run through one side of an LP and it stopped on its' own with no problems. Three or four minutes later I went over to put on another record and it was still coasting down!
- Need to check the speed. I don't have a strobe so I'll have to see if I have any light bulbs that will work with the strobe disk I have stored away.
- The headshell is a bit pitted. If I take a picture with the flash turned on it looks horrible. That's not how it really looks, but it does show it could use some help. I'll see if there is any other cosmetic issues when I clean it.


Anyway, I'm reading about this cartridge. It's a funky spring loaded gizmo which was supposed to help tracking for dance floors or on boats or what have you. I've read some comments that say it might be like an M44 or M55 or M75. It would be nice to find out which one. It will factor into whether I'll want to get a better cart.

Here are some pics. I'll be tuning it up in the coming days and weeks.

View attachment 1299320 View attachment 1299322 View attachment 1299323 View attachment 1299324 View attachment 1299326 View attachment 1299327 View attachment 1299328

I have a restored 1019. It came with that spring loaded sled which has a M75E D19 cartridge with a lovely Shure elliptical stylus on it. The M75 is a similar body to the M91 and has a very nice vintage sound. I like the spring loaded gizmo.

I also bought an aftermarket sled (and shim) as previously recommended and I run a Shure V15 type II on it. The type II has an original VN15e.
 
I fixed my sled. If the contacts rock too much on the attachment point in the center you'll need to epoxy them to the sled. What happens is the plastic nub on the sled that the contact is affixed to breaks and it has no tension against the arm contacts.

Use a pencil eraser to clean the sled contacts prior to epoxying them. Clean the contacts on the tonearm the same way.

Mine has been good for a couple of months now. I don't mess around changing carts too often so it doesn't take much abuse. I'm running a Pickering ACE3 cart with a 605 D7T stylus at 3.5gr and liking the combination.

I tracked down an old Lafayette catalog with the 1019 and that was a cart it would have been sold with new. It's fun to hear what these may have sounded like back in the day. My opinion is that it sounds pretty good.
 
I haven't changed mine but from what I have heard on VE they seem to recommend 300,000cst. Check the service manual, I remember it mentioned 100,000cst but I think it was used in the main cam (the auto return lever). The hum is probably in the headshell contacts. Silver polish works great, and you might want to bend very slightly and gently the headshell contacts upwards. Also dont forget to clean the contacts on the tonearm end of the headshell.

And dont mess with the antiskate, its factory calibrated and unless you have a dual antiskate measurement device you have no chance to set it right.

20140405_190159_zps5dka3qlw.jpg

The spring when the tonearm is in rest position should be on axis (no tension at all). In this case you can see being off axis. If the brass piece hole (when the tonearm is in rest position and antiskate is set to 0) is directly above the tonearm wire hole it means the AS is set correctly.

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Also check if the tonearm cables have any tension. It happened when I serviced mine. To resolve the problem (if you have the same issue): there is a metal clip holding the cables to the top plate. Remove that and then give the cables some room to move freely.
 
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In order to adjust the arm set-down point, you have to move the size selector to the 7-inch position. Moving the selector uncovers an adjustment screw which lives between the platter and the arm rest.
If you keep a weather eye out, you should be able to find a sled for less than $55. I did manage to find one for $30 on Ebay.
If you do go aftermarket for the sled, get one that's injection molded
 
The aftermarket sleds available on eBay are much better than the troublesome originals. I put the 2 or 3 originals I own into a bag and went with the new ones 100%.
 
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