Yet another Dual 1019 Thread - Just picked one up

[Tim D]

New tire ordered from VoM. The core exchange has been sent to them.

Purchased two separate M91 carts for good prices on eBay. Neither has styli so that will be next. I’ll start with good cheap first and upgrade to great expensive later. An M91 will be my main cart for this Dual 1019.

Next is to work on the plinth and chase the electrical hum (from the motor windings?). I have two Dual 1009’s in the queue. Is the motor and drive pulley the same if I wanted to try swapping motors to chase this noise?

Anyone know if the supply voltage switch came on all Dual 1019’s?

 

[Tim D]

Both M91’s have arrived and just got an email that the tire has shipped. Things are starting to come together.

For mounting the cart does anyone have opinions on whether I need to get lightweight bolts for the cart? I see stainless, aluminum, and nylon bolts. Does the weight of the hardware matter enough to care?

Any comments on the supply voltage switch? Is mine rare or did they all come with one?

 

[Solist]

With the weight of the headhshell and carrier I dont think it matters what bolts you will use. It is not a super lightweight headshell so dont worry about hardware.

Mine also has a switch, so probably something found on a lot of 1019.

The motor of the 1009 is the same I think, they might did some slight improvements on the 1019, who knows.

If you have both them them apart and compare

 

[Tim D]

With the weight of the headhshell and carrier I dont think it matters what bolts you will use. It is not a super lightweight headshell so dont worry about hardware.

Mine also has a switch, so probably something found on a lot of 1019s.

Thanks Solist!

I’m adding a shim to level the cart for single play. I’m thinking to offset the weight of the shim with lighter hardware. Not sure it makes a difference though.

Thanks for the response on the switch too.

 

[illinoisteve]

I love the 1000-series Duals. My first Dual love was a 1009, that I got from a local electronics store that sometimes has/had good vintage equipment for sale. It came with a Shure M3D cartridge (the best stereo technology of 1958!), and the Dual and the sound that came from it and that cart was a thing of rich beauty. Unfortunately, before my 30-day warrantee was over, the machine developed a mechanical problem. I took it in, and the store remedied the problem, but within two weeks it came back again. I took the machine back to the store, and after a few days they told me that the ultimate cause was a broken or worn-out part that was no longer available. I didn't know anything about Dual mechanics then, so I took their word. They gave me my money back, and since they had sold a Pioneer turntable I had traded in for part of the price, they let me keep the M3D. But it was a wonderful experience. A few years later, I got a 1229 and with the help of people here and on another forum, learned to refurbish it. I wonder now whether I could fix that 1009 if I could get it back in the condition it was in when I returned it. Sometimes I watch 1000-series Duals on the auction site...dreaming of regaining that first Dual love magic. I wish some cheap ones would fall into my lap like they do for the OP.

 

[Tim D]

I love the 1000-series Duals. My first Dual love was a 1009, that I got from a local electronics store that sometimes has/had good vintage equipment for sale. It came with a Shure M3D cartridge (the best stereo technology of 1958!), and the Dual and the sound that came from it and that cart was a thing of rich beauty. Unfortunately, before my 30-day warrantee was over, the machine developed a mechanical problem. I took it in, and the store remedied the problem, but within two weeks it came back again. I took the machine back to the store, and after a few days they told me that the ultimate cause was a broken or worn-out part that was no longer available. I didn't know anything about Dual mechanics then, so I took their word. They gave me my money back, and since they had sold a Pioneer turntable I had traded in for part of the price, they let me keep the M3D. But it was a wonderful experience. A few years later, I got a 1229 and with the help of people here and on another forum, learned to refurbish it. I wonder now whether I could fix that 1009 if I could get it back in the condition it was in when I returned it. Sometimes I watch 1000-series Duals on the auction site...dreaming of regaining that first Dual love magic. I wish some cheap ones would fall into my lap like they do for the OP.

Thanks illinoisteve,

I'm into my 4th restoration of Dual's and I'm finding them generally repairable so far. In this order I've done 1226, 506, 604 and now this 1019. They were all in various states, but generally not severely broken. I've got three more in the queue - two 1009's and a second 1226. I've got to stop picking these up.

Just waiting on the new idler, cart mounting HW and new (cheap) stylus for the Shure M91 that I just picked up. Should be ready to do that next week sometime. I still need to work on the veneer on the plinth a little and do the TT setup once assembled. Hoping for this 1019 to take over my top spot from my Dual 1226 with Shure M91ED (w/cheap stylus).

 

[Zvezda]

I'm listening to my 1019 right now. Cartridge alignment on this table was a unique challenge. Since I'm using an aftermarket cartridge sled, the dual overhang gage doesn't fit. I had to do lots of googling to find the proper null points for this tonearm--I'm using 52.3 and 110.4mm. I had to print out a special protractor, scale the print correctly, and then draw the inner null point myself because it was off the scale of the protractor. Luckily my engineering office has lots of precision measurement tools available for things like this. Then I had to shim for VTA using a cutout piece of a credit card. The VTA wedge I ordered from eBay was too aggressive, but the credit card piece was perfect. I feel confident that I could mount a cartridge on any turntable after going through all of this.

The payoff is huge, though. This turntable, when properly set up, is just a pleasure to listen to. I don't think it's going to kick my Thorens off of my main system, but it's definitely earned its place in my headphone setup.

 

[Solist]

The way I set the cartridge VTA is with using a thicker mat on top of the original one. And it also helps with the tonearm being in a more horizontal position while playing (dont know how much this affects the sound). Still planning to build a cork one in the near future.

But you got me curious about the protractor. I was searching for the original one from Dual, and I gave up, so I went with Stevenson. But I for sure need to experiment more, those null points should be a good start.

 

[Zvezda]

The way I set the cartridge VTA is with using a thicker mat on top of the original one. And it also helps with the tonearm being in a more horizontal position while playing (dont know how much this affects the sound). Still planning to build a cork one in the near future.

But you got me curious about the protractor. I was searching for the original one from Dual, and I gave up, so I went with Stevenson. But I for sure need to experiment more, those null points should be a good start.

I looked up the null points i'm using and it's actually 52.3 and 110.4. Ignore my original numbers--I'll edit the post. Anyway, these null points give you a kind of Baerwaeld alignment for this short tonearm. Distortion at outer and inner grooves is balanced with the peak distortion between the null points. It doesn't minimize distortion in the inner grooves like Stevenson, but I haven't had any issues with IGD on this alignment.

This is based on the information I found here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=52646

 

[Tim D]

The way I set the cartridge VTA is with using a thicker mat on top of the original one. And it also helps with the tonearm being in a more horizontal position while playing (dont know how much this affects the sound). Still planning to build a cork one in the near future.

But you got me curious about the protractor. I was searching for the original one from Dual, and I gave up, so I went with Stevenson. But I for sure need to experiment more, those null points should be a good start.

I looked for a mat, but was having trouble finding one to fit the 10" platter on the 1019. Thoughts?

 

[Solist]

Much appreciated Zvezda!

Tim, you can buy a sheet of cork or buy a normal cork mat and use a pot or something similar (10") to cut around it. An exacto knife should do the job. Check for those mats that have a slight indent for the record label.

One more thing that crossed my mind this morning. Did anyone ever tried to replace the metal washers of the main bearing with something different? Lets say copper. Since alot of thrust bearing use it, I thought it would make some sense experimenting on this kind of bearing.

 

[illinoisteve]

Much appreciated Zvezda!

Tim, you can buy a sheet of cork or buy a normal cork mat and use a pot or something similar (10") to cut around it. An exacto knife should do the job. Check for those mats that have a slight indent for the record label.

One more thing that crossed my mind this morning. Did anyone ever tried to replace the metal washers of the main bearing with something different? Lets say copper. Since alot of thrust bearing use it, I thought it would make some sense experimenting on this kind of bearing.

The stock Dual mat would make a good pattern for marking a 10-inch circle on the material for the new mat.

 

[beatcomber]

Anyone know if the supply voltage switch came on all Dual 1019’s?

Only the models sold overseas have that, which is also evidenced by the Dual-made plinth with yours that was unavailable in North America.

Your Dual has inches marking the record size selector, so I believe it was sold at a US military PX, probably in Germany, and brought back to the States. The ones with centimeters (like mine) were for the European market, and are fairly uncommon stateside.

The Euro models also have the interconnects clipped onto terminals, whereas the US models have a bracket with RCA jacks.

 

[Tim D]

Only the models sold overseas have that, which is also evidenced by the Dual-made plinth with yours that was unavailable in North America.

Your Dual has inches marking the record size selector, so I believe it was sold at a US military PX, probably in Germany, and brought back to the States. The ones with centimeters (like mine) were for the European market, and are fairly uncommon stateside.

The Euro models also have the interconnects clipped onto terminals, whereas the US models have a bracket with RCA jacks.

Interesting beatcomber,

While I have the German plinth and the voltage selector, mine has inches as you can see, but it also has the RCA connections underneath. Seems I have an oddball unless someone added the RCA jacks.

 

[beatcomber]

Interesting beatcomber,

While I have the German plinth and the voltage selector, mine has inches as you can see, but it also has the RCA connections underneath. Seems I have an oddball unless someone added the RCA jacks.

View attachment 1314628

I wonder if that was in fact added later... the wires between the clips and RCA jacks are typically red and blue, but yours are all red.

 

[Tim D]

I wonder if that was in fact added later... the wires between the clips and RCA jacks are typically red and blue, but yours are all red.

beatcomber,

I can believe that the jacks were added. I can also believe that they were bought overseas and converted for USA use later. May have started life with a DIN on it. That would be the second Dual (a 604) I picked up which started life with a DIN on it. Not sure why I'm bumping into them. Statistically, I'd expect the numbers of German ones to be low. Thank you.

 

[Tim D]

Lotsa stuff arrived today. The tire, the stylus's, and some tonearm wires that I won't immediately use. Put it together with the old cart, set the speed, hooked up the new RCA cables, and I'm giving it a listen. Sounds ok with the old cart still has two different hums. One through the amp and one audible from the motor windings. Still waiting on the mounting hardware so I'm not ready to mount one of the M91's just yet. Here's what I think is remaining....

- Still got an electrical hum coming through the amp and a mechanical hum coming out of the motor windings.
- Need to do something about the plinth. Need to fill a couple of dings and I think I'll hit it with "Restore-a-Finish".
- Need to buff out the dust cover. There are some minor scratches.
- Need to replace the ground wire.
- Need to paint the headshell.
- Need to mount the M91 cart once the hardware arrives.
- Need to do a proper setup.
- Then listen......

Here's a pic of it playing right now.

 

[Tim D]

The mounting hardware came yesterday. Cleaned a bunch of LP's and put together the sled, M91 and put in the shim.... I musta put the shim in backward as the cart was nearly tail-dragging and mistracking. Took the shim out, set the VTF and I'm playing it now. In looking how the cart rides it doesn't look ass-high mounted without the shim, so for now I'm going to leave it out.

Sounds decent, but not knock your socks off great. Probably the very cheap stylus I got from the big auction site. I bought two stylus's and they are marked from "Columbia". I'm guessing they aren't the best. (Not terrible, but not what I'd expect from a Shure M91.) I'm going to keep using this stylus to see if it will break-in and improve a bit. Note that the stylus does not give any information such as 3x7 elliptical or conical or what. Maybe it is a low quality conical. I ordered the cart alignment tool from the big auction site and a second sled. I'll be rockin now.....

I did notice that after single play that the arm returns but comes up maybe an 1/8" short of sitting on the tonearm rest and the platter keeps spinning. Is there a way to adjust this or should I go underneath and do some more cleaning and lubing? EDIT: I ended up cleaning the part where the spatula and the tone arm rub underneath. If this was a different model it would have had a steuerpimple there. This corrected the return action/shutoff and also corrected where it sits down on the record during auto play start.

I also figured out the hum coming through the amp. It was the ground wire. I disconnected the ground at the amp and the hum is gone. Go figure. Maybe I have to just remove the whole ground wire from the TT. (I've got a Dual 604 with a similar hum. I'll try the same solution for that one too.)

Today I picked up some Howards restore-a-finish (Walnut) and some wood filler (also walnut). After I fill the dings I'll go over it with the Howards. (Will Howards stain the chrome band on the front of the plinth if I don't mask it off?)

 

[bobins08]

Get a Jico elliptical or hyper elliptical for the M91. Why mess around with poor quality aftermarket stylus? The M75/M91 should play great on that table and there are good styli out there.

The shim I bought for my 1019 sled put my V15-II in a really good VTA for single play. I got it on eBay from the same guy that makes the sleds.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

 

[T68]

Ah, this thread really puts the upgrade bug into my head. I´m really happy with my little 1225, but there´s something with those Duals ending with a niner in their names.
Just not shure I´ll find one for the 20 bucks I paid for the 1225