Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    Or too much coffee. I'm stoked about this thing its that good. Really good cheap fun for all, and sounds good enough to make you smile. Anyone who builds should try it...they'll like it:yes:

    Russellc
     
  2. Greyhawk17

    Greyhawk17 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
    E-Waves........

    Skywave-rider,
    Hi,....Dimensions are 25"x14x11.5 exterior, will gain a bit of sq/in as I am
    moving front baffle out/forward 1"-1.25 to eliminate grill recess, and will
    regroup on a new gtill design.....!.77 sq ft.....Had originally figures on 2.0
    sq.ft, but with thick walls lost a bit....Only other cab that is close is an
    Sansui 2500,@ 2.34 cubic feet....Will think on whether the difference is
    a potential problem,....'Sui' cab is 29x16.75x11.0", but I don't think it's 1"
    thick mdf.....Any thoughts?, THX, T
     
  3. skywave-rider

    skywave-rider Slumming in Akihabara Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,717
    Location:
    Akihabara, Tokyo
    I'm thinking the volume you're picking up will be helpful, and also that we're both going 100% fill, like Zilch suggested.

    Are you staying with the stock woofer?
     
  4. jackgiff

    jackgiff Super Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Doesn't it seem almost illegal to get so much performance for so little money?

    The EconoWave should be on everybody's list to build. I really love mine, and have sold the Trusonic 5KT's that were in one pair of EV Baronet clones. The 150FR's didn't sell, so will swap them for the good pair, and then they will sell.

    EconoWave Rulez!!!
     
  5. Greyhawk17

    Greyhawk17 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
    E-Waves........

    Skywave-rider,
    On the woofer, whichever cab I use, will be using a Klipsch 12" K-22EF,
    an early pre-70's model, that goes both 'deeper' and 'higher' than the
    later Heresy models,....Made by Eminence for Klipsch, and getting hard
    to find as time passes.....Bought several giant bags of poly-fil, so OK
    on that front....What woofers are you using,?.......Cheers, T
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2008
  6. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    Yes, so little money, I think thats the problem some people (at least those that market similar items) have with Econowave. Or at least that's about the only reason I can think of why someone would diss something they havent tried and despite proof all around them. Oh well, you can lead them to econowave but you cant make them drink. There loss. So cheap, so good, what a shame.

    Russellc
     
  7. ttan98

    ttan98 Member

    Messages:
    56
    Zilch, Russellc, Jackgiff

    There are already 226 posts discussing the progress of this Econo waveguide speakers, from what I read at DIYaudio and browsing here I am interested in the waveguide, the driver and cross-over.

    Rather reading through all the postings which is very time consuming, would be kind enough to quick point me to the important posts that discuss the design concepts and also the final design outcomes of the discussions.

    More importantly there will others who would be interested too.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    EconoWave Summary

    Design concept: An inexpensive ($188/pair) pre-engineered compression driver/waveguide/crossover high frequency section suitable for mating with various woofers to facilitate building DIY two-way speaker systems.


    Compression Driver: Selenium D220Ti, thread-on version, 8 Ohms:

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-270

    Alternate Selenium D2500Ti-Nd, 8 Ohms. The same diaphragm in a more compact and lighter package particularly suited for use with smaller waveguides. More expensive than D220Ti:

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-274&FTR=264-274


    Waveguide: JBL 1" thread-on Progressive Transition, Part# 338800-001, 90° x 50° dispersion pattern, flange dimensions 12" W x 6.5" H, 6.25" deep including D220Ti driver, 5.625" using D2500Ti-Nd, $9.90 each. Optional flange mounting gasket Part# 351577-001.

    Alternate "Mini" PT waveguide for smaller projects, Part# 364914-001, 90° x 90° dispersion pattern, flange dimensions 6" x 6", 4" deep to rear of flange with D220Ti driver, 3.375" using D2500Ti-Nd, $6.00 each.

    Also for smaller projects, PT-D95HF-1 waveguide Part# 364700-001, 90° x 50° dispersion, flange dimensions 8" x 8", 7.625" deep to rear of flange with D220Ti driver, 7.125" including D2500Ti-Nd, $14 each.

    Order these JBL waveguides direct from JBL Pro Parts with credit card:

    http://www.jblproservice.com/forms/parts_order1.html

    Pyle Pro PH612 waveguide, equivalent to the larger 12" W x 6.5" H JBL product, is also available from Parts Express, part #292-2572:

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=292-2572

    Dayton's clone:

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=270-318

    Though unconfirmed, apparently also available in Australia from DJ City:

    http://www.djcity.com.au/products/yd...07mm_1025.html


    Crossover: Highpass filter with CD compensation for this specific driver/waveguide combination. Includes generic 1.2 kHz lowpass filter for 8-Ohm woofer, which builders should "fine tune" for the specific woofer used:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151281&d=1242968714


    Parts List: Three versions, one for each of three standard woofer impedances:

    http://home.comcast.net/~dnewma04/EconowaveBoM.htm


    Board Layout:

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133068&stc=1&d=1233530586


    Printed Circuit Version:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2636636#post2636636


    Integral Input Crossover Mounting:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2766696#post2766696


    Variants: See text.

    1) For high efficiency woofers above 95 dB/1W sensitivity, use this version of the highpass filter so that the L-Pad operates near the middle of its range:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151282&d=1242968714

    Note: May also be supplemented with a calculated fixed L-Pad to reduce high frequency driver sensitivity to a specifically desired level or adjustment range.

    2) 900 Hz lowpass for JBL LE14A woofer:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151339&stc=1&d=1243017683

    3) Advice regarding passive biamping with tube amp HF:

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2416284#post2416284

    4) Charge-coupled implementation of the standard circuit:

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101428&d=1217293889

    5) Custom attenuation:

    http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/1278.html

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2238704#post2238704


    Driver Polarity:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2760384#post2760384


    System Designs:

    1) EconoWave "Standard" Kit:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...67#post3383067
    http://mail.audiokarma.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3383067#post3383067

    2) EconoWave "Deluxe" Kit:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...05#post3448405
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/s...x-Your-PCD-Mettle/page4&p=1626379#post1626379

    3) Econowave 4x Kit:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...77#post3843177
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle&p=1655955#post1655955
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2013
    djnagle likes this.
  9. ttan98

    ttan98 Member

    Messages:
    56
    Zilch,

    Many thanks...
     
  10. ttan98

    ttan98 Member

    Messages:
    56
    Various woofer, what sort of spl I should be looking at if I use the x-over as per diagram?

    I remembered reading some one used Eminence Delta 12" LFA. Is this correct?
     
  11. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    95 dB SPL and below for the "standard" crossover. See Variant #1 for use with more sensitive woofers.... :yes:
     
  12. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    Its a good place (95db) to divide the woofers up catagory wise. Mine were 97 db, ( JBL 2225H ) and I used the crossover with the .47 compensation. It sounded good, but when I switched to the 1.5 version, it sounded even better to my ears.

    Unfortunately, I dont own any of the L 100 varients everyone is having such good luck with. 2235H is next in my line up for econowave.

    Russellc
     
  13. ttan98

    ttan98 Member

    Messages:
    56
    It is difficult to convince Gedlee to try testing your config, and I think both of you Zilch and Rusellc have succeeded.

    Congrats.
     
  14. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    I really hope so, its a great setup and I would love to see his input on it. I am sure it would be good, otherwise this thing would not sound so blasted crazy good! I am sure that in a cost no object setup, one could best its performance, but not by much. This isnt just a cheap "well it sounds good for the money" type of deal, its a real eye opener and just fun as hell.

    Russellc
     
  15. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
  16. jackgiff

    jackgiff Super Member

    Messages:
    1,045
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    I can have a pair sent to him from Parts Express for measuring. Then when he is through measuring them, he can ship them to me. Freight collect would even be OK with me.

    Someone check out with him if he will do the measurements and report on it. I will need his shipping address as well.
     
  17. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I just eMailed him, proposing to also send him your new pair of waveguides which just came in, as well.

    If this all works out, they'll be routed to you via Novi, MI.... :thmbsp:
     
  18. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    Cool, this should be very interesting for sure!

    Russellc:banana: Way to go Zilch!:thmbsp:
     
  19. Ice_Cubit

    Ice_Cubit Super Member

    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    3rd Rock
    Russell,

    As much as I am jealous that you got those speakers, they would still be sitting in my apartment collecting dust right now. So glad they have sparked a fire under you. Cant wait to hear the final result.
     
  20. skywave-rider

    skywave-rider Slumming in Akihabara Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,717
    Location:
    Akihabara, Tokyo
    I'm using JBL 123A-1s. !2".
    I have Heresys as well. Mine have K-22"K"s, I think. I don't know if it's useful to you, but I could do a nearfield RTA measurement if you need to look at FR for crossover purposes.

    I don't know what polyfil is made of. If it's Dacron, Diskason does a comparison of that material to Fiberglass in his book. I like the concept of keeping glass fibers out of my lungs, but it seems to be the most effective overall in damping standing waves, lowering Q and lowering resonant frequency. We'll see. You saw my 50Hz bump....
    :scratch2:
     

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