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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. oldskl

    oldskl Well-Known Member

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    Kentucky
    It doesnt really make sense, it was mounted to the waveguide wich was mounted to the box.
     
  2. von.ah

    von.ah Schultze!

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    Charm City
    L56 Update

    Tis a bloody ting of beauty, aye. :thmbsp:

    [​IMG]

    I have ONE done.:D

    The ADS woofers (206-0324) are f-ing brilliant. To be fair, it's now apparent that the 118H woofers really need a refoam. The old surrounds are just too stiff.

    I've got solid bass down to 40 Hz, folks. No official measurement, of course, but it is more than just there. 30 Hz wasn't much farther down in volume. Running the Lpad full out was not a problem, either. The balance is great -- better than I hoped for with the hurdles in this project... DIY ROCKS!

    :banana: :music: :banana:

    :tresbon:

    Hell, now i have to do the whole fing thing over again... :D
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  3. Kegger

    Kegger Anything can be S "MODed" Super Mod

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    11,958
    Location:
    Michigan,warren
    Nice!

    Those ADS woofers do sound great, I like it, congrats!
     
  4. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

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    12,484
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    Berkeley, CA
    Indeed.

    Go Von.ah, GO...! :banana:
     
  5. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

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    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Thread-on Adapter Study:

    Two D220Ti thread-on versions Red & Green, and two bolt on ones w/P-Audio adapters Orange and Blue, and Selenium adapters Violet and Cyan:

    [​IMG]

    Todd's-eye view:

    [​IMG]

    Does this mean the throat adapters make for less response at both ends of the bandwidth?

    Well, no, not necessarily; these older bolt-on drivers may simply have less of that to begin with, but there are differences, again, "in detail," between these two manufacturers' adapters on the pair of them, Orange versus Violet and Blue versus Cyan, indicating that adapters may very well influence the response characteristics to some degree.... :yes:

    [​IMG]

    Footnote: The highpass here is one of a pair of high-sensitivity variant E'Wave crossovers I just completed for a client; it's playing +/- 2 dB with the standard D220Ti thread-on drivers.... :thmbsp:
     

    Attached Files:

  6. tubino

    tubino A guy with too many tubes

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    2,451
    Location:
    Toledo, Ohio
    Nice job! Yes, DIY rocks!

    I have a theory about stereo DIY vs mono. Sure, stereo means twice the work in some ways, but... in a way I think it's the best thing for the DIY learning curve. A lot of the work of DIY is determining what to do, gathering the parts to do it, then figuring out the actual detail-level implementation of layout, cutting, drilling, soldering, clamping, finishing. The steps of what to do and parts gathering are mostly the same for stereo as mono (except parts gathering is a lot more challenging if you are scavenging old parts and need PAIRS). But when you actually build that second channel -- when you're not very experienced -- you get to act out what you just learned in terms of tricks! So it usually goes faster, but also better as you more confidently incorporate fresh lessons of those little construction tips and tricks.

    So my theory is that stereo more than doubles your advance on the learning curve of how-to hands-on stuff. The professional educators would say it's pedagogically sound.

    The second channel is often fun in a different way. First channel you learn how, second channel you do it with more speed and confidence and maybe ability too (assuming you're starting from inexperience). I'm sure it wears off when you do a lot of it though, and just becomes a chore.
     
  7. oldskl

    oldskl Well-Known Member

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    Kentucky
    Zilch, FYI, when the box fell the leads from the crossover to the D220ti were attached. When they jerked loose that pulled on the tabs on the driver, that in turn stretched the copper band from the tab to the voice coil and snapped it in half. I repositioned the two ends of the copper band together and put some medium CA glue on the to hold them together and hopefully that will work, if not I will buy a new diaphragm.
     
  8. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

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    11,528
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Good one Von. I like those woofs as well.
     
  9. Spectrum77

    Spectrum77 Super Member

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    Location:
    Adelaide Australia
    Sorry for all the questions- For those unable to interpret the findings from the response graph in practical terms- are the differences great enough to be perceptible?
    Can we presume the differences in measurement responses to be due to the physical distance between driver and waveguide created by the adapter, or another anomaly which would require experimentation to identify?
     
  10. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

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    Berkeley, CA
    The variations between the two types of adapters are less than those between the two drivers themselves.

    With respect to the diminished response at the extremes, there's nothing to be done about that above 18 kHz, but I'd probably be considering whether I need to tweak the basic highpass filter at the low end based upon the response in combination with the woofer(s). That's in the crossover region, and might actually be advantageous with a woofer having a peaked response there.

    Again, whether these larger variations are the result of using throat adapters or not is indeterminate, and there are no horns or waveguides that are at once both bolt-on and thread-on to resolve that.

    As to the reason(s) any of this is going on, I suppose there are designers with specialized horn throat geometry expertise, but in practical terms, nobody gives a whit. Geddes would fill any discontinuities with clay, probably, and call it "Done...." :dunno:
     
  11. cuthien

    cuthien Active Member

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    248
    Location:
    US
    Just curious, can I use 1st order crossover on my altec 414 woofer and keep the same econowave version for the high - if so then what should i cross it at --- 1200hz???

    Also for the 8" JBL Wave guide, do i use same crossover as the 338800-001 wave guide or do i have to change different value for the compensation circuit. Thanks.
     
  12. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

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    12,484
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Using 1st order will introduce phase issues. If you must, make it quasi-2nd-order with a Zobel; otherwise stick with the program would be my advice.

    The 8" square waveguide requires additional HF compensation, the highpass frequency is a bit higher, and the role of a baffle is significant. See our recent discussion earlier in this thread.... :yes:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2475659&#post2475659
     
  13. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

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    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    EconoWave is One

    With 133 participants, an unprecedented 4450 posts, 174,000 views, and 38 AKers having completed "Official" projects, today is E'Wave's 1st anniversary. We've come a very long way with this simple concept through the continuing contributions of so many members, and I'm sure Jack joins me in thanking you all for making EconoWave such an outstanding success:


    Wave ON!! :thmbsp:
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
  14. oldskl

    oldskl Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Kentucky
    I have to agree with everybody. Although mine aren't official Econowaves because I used the Dayton 7x7 waveguide, they sound unbelievable. Im listening to Americas greatest hits on vinyl right now and it sounds amazing. I'm hearing details that I didn't even know were in the recording. Thanks Zilch.
     
  15. skywave-rider

    skywave-rider Slumming in Akihabara

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    1,714
    Location:
    Akihabara, Tokyo
    Thanks Zilch, thanks, Jack, Russell et. al..:ntwrthy:
    U learned me good.

    I actually feel guilty if I don't keep up with this thread.

    Econowave is a perfect way to introduce listeners to high quality and accurate reproduction which is not based around black box technology.
    Liberating.
    :thmbsp:
     
  16. cuthien

    cuthien Active Member

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    248
    Location:
    US
    Thanks Zilch for the respond and link to the 8" waveguide. I will stick w/ the original design on the woofer.
     
  17. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

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    11,528
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    A BIG ASS THANKS to all you guys for developing this project. I have about four more ewaves planned. But, one thing at a time. Cheers.
     
  18. Clmrt

    Clmrt Just thrilled.

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    Location:
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    Thanks for making me want a better woofer.

    :huge:
     
  19. castlesteve

    castlesteve New Member

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    Location:
    N Virginia
    First Ewaves!

    Here`s my first attempt. I55s with the tweeter and crossover disconnected. The improvement over the originals is remarkable. I thank whomever put together the Le14 crossover as they have done a fine job. This is my first time playing with JBLs and i have to say i`m impressed with the build quality and fidelity these large woofers have. As you can see i have done a rather rudimentary job of bodging these together, so i think i will build some new cabinets for these soon with rather more room to let these drivers really stretch their legs.
    Many thanks to all concerned who have put in countless hours to refine this project to where it is today. I`ll post pics of the new cabs when they`re ready. Steve.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Zilch

    Zilch Curve Junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Hi, Steve!

    You are Official E'Waver #39 with your "Classic" first system:

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

    As many have previously discovered, it's not necessary to modify an existing system in any way other than to connect wires to the woofers to taste EconoWave performance.

    After that comes the adventure of honing and developing the principles demonstrated here according to your personal tastes and preferences into a system that becomes very much your own creation.... :thmbsp:
     

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