Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[nerdorama]

Hi Zilch and Joe,

I took the Ewave's to the NW AK meet yesterday thinking there might be some AK'ers interested to hear it. I only had the OLA's to match with them but they worked well enought for the show and tell. The crossovers had only been assembled with wire nuts, so the night before I strapped them onto some pegboard to make a portable module.

I was planning to use a recently refreshed Sansui 1000a for the demo, but just before my turn play them a cap in the bias supply exploded so Sir.Byrd loaned me a Marantz receiver and on with the show. Some of the guys seemed to like the Ewave's very well.

John

 

[skywave-rider]

...
If anyone has tips on dealing with spray paint on cones and surrounds, please share. Otherwise, I'm calling it "weather treatment", a feature rather than a bug. Bring on the backyard barbecue parties!

I remember the venerable Jack spraying woofers fresh and posting pics in this thread.

 

[jandg]

Hey John,
Hope damage wasn't to bad on that amp. I definately heard enough of the E-wave to hear what can be done. It was coherant. Had the live feel on small scale SPL dynamics. I will just up-scale this to 2226 version & let the dynamic games begin..*s* Nice depth to that sound stage also & not to wide..all good points to me. Hopefully Tubino will see my thread so I can rob his mind... great fun that PNW gathering was.
Joe

 

[Russellc]

Tuning 2235H in JBL 4507/4647

I've had the parts for some while to do this, so I finally changed out low pass components on the crossover to better match the 2235H drivers to the high pass Econowave rig. It was a suggestion from Zilch that I replicate the low pass of the JBL 4430 monitor. I think most here are aware that the 4430 is actually the birth idea of sorts for Econowave. The change was simple, as the 4430 also uses a 12 db ( electrically anyway ) which happens to use the same cap the basic Econowave uses, 12 mfd. The coil spec is considerably larger, a 2.6 coil with large guage wire. ( actually a dewound 2.7 coil, per instructions Zilch gave long ago on the cloning 4430 crossover over on LHF ) The 4507/4647 box is the same basic cu. ft. as the 4430, and the 2235H is the bass driver, so I had high hopes here.

The size of this coil is quite large, but Zilch has told me just to try the Erse iron core in this location, which will fit the board. I had this part anyway, as eventually I will build the entire 4430 clone crossover and have the parts waiting. I also have the 4430 spec'd zobel installed as well, hanging off the rear posts.

Soundwise, it brings the bass under control more than the standard crossover did, which allowed a much woolier sound when tuned to the 4430
standard tuning. Still plenty of bass. The crossover is mounted on a board that was made by member Jackgiff, boy these sure do neaten up my birdsnest crossovers!

Russellc

 

[Sir.Byrd]

OLA and E'Wave.

What's the story, Byrd?

Saw these at the PNW audio meet.

 

[Russellc]

Oak 1/4 round shoe molding

Do you know if its available in walnut? Looks like it might be easier for me to work with compared to thin strips of veneer. Thanks for the build tips, its a great cabinet to have and can be used in a number of interesting ways by plug and playing drivers and ports, including 4430 and B380 clones.:yes:

Russellc

 

[dnewma04]

Sure, there are a number of online source for quarter and half round moulding in various hardwoods.

http://www.ravsupply.com/home/rs1/page_87/hr_34_half_round_moulding.html

There is some 3/4 wide half round material in walnut for 1.31 per linear foot. I'm sure there are many sources, that was just the first hit I had on an internet search.

 

[hhibrownsbac]

As Dnewman04 posted its easy to locate, but walnut will usually have to be ordered, at least around here it isnt carried in stock at any of the lumber yards but then again we are far from being a major metropolis and it might be carried in your larger cities. I used 1/4 round because I mounted the drivers on the outside of the box and with the thickness of the 2225 it gave me 3/4" to fit my grills back into and be flush with the edge and still allowed plenty of room for the driver. One more thing about using the 1/4 or 1/2 round cap is I glue it and nail it to the Plywood(or what ever you are using) pieces before they are cut to fit, that allows you to get nice tight corners where the plywood and cap are cut exactly together. Also make sure the glue doesnt squirt out, use as little as possible as it really screws with the staining process, a little goes a long ways. Wood wont stain properly with even the slightest trace of glue on it.

 

[tubino]

Tubino,....I liked the imaging better with e-wave than the 2426H/2370 horn combo. 2226H allready has a great mid range to me. A great tube amp will show this. Can you tell me the XO you used with your 2226/DE250 combo...? I would like to copy it.

Hey Joe, there is zero originality in my crossover, unless you count my peculiar construction technique. I went a bit far in pushing inductors away from each other. It's pretty much the stock values for EWG, but doubling coils and halving caps for the woofer part (16ohm vs stock 8ohm). I haven't yet made the adjustments for going to B&C DE250, but will get around to it. Sounds like a great project you've got going. Happy soldering!

 

[Zilch]

If anyone has tips on dealing with spray paint on cones and surrounds, please share. Otherwise, I'm calling it "weather treatment", a feature rather than a bug. Bring on the backyard barbecue parties!

They are "Weatherized."

I took the Ewave's to the NW AK meet yesterday thinking there might be some AK'ers interested to hear it. Some of the guys seemed to like the Ewave's very well.

It's good more are getting the opportunity to hear E'Wave in action. To date, building them has been largely an act of faith.

[But good fun, of course. :yes: ]

Saw these at the PNW audio meet.

And did they sound good enough for you to continue building your E'Wave project?

Hey Joe, there is zero originality in my crossover, unless you count my peculiar construction technique.

Where do I get some of those blue single screw-terminal thingies? That's a neat component connection solution....

BHamm is Official E'Waver #41 with his clever AR2ax conversion. :thmbsp:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220411

I'm seeing lots of interesting E'Wave design concepts being posted here recently.

Wave ON, group! :guitar:

 

[spkrman57]

Yeah!

Those little blue connectors that tubino used saves a bunch of soldering time.

I could use them also!

Regards, Ron

 

[Bauhausler]

Yeah!

Those little blue connectors that tubino used saves a bunch of soldering time.

I could use them also!

Regards, Ron

Ditto that. Need and want! Please share the source of the blue terminal thingies.

 

[Bauhausler]

Here's a question that's probably been answered 7 times: What's the reasonable lower limit of the D220Ti/PH612 combination? 2k?

 

[Zilch]

Here's a question that's probably been answered 7 times: What's the reasonable lower limit of the D220Ti/PH612 combination? 2k?

Electrical? Whatever the D220Ti spec sheet says.

Acoustical? Wherever that takes it....

 

[Bauhausler]

Electrical? Whatever the D220Ti spec sheet says.

Acoustical? Wherever that takes it....

The 220Ti spec sheet that I have is in Portuguese, so it's hard to tell. Their curves show response down to below 1K, so Iguess for our purposes the low end cutoff would be governed by the waveguide.
I don't know why PE doesn't post a sheet for this product.

I've been listening to this 3-way combo with the AR3 woofer up to 300hz, the B110 up to 2K and the 220Ti/PH612 above that and I have to say there's very little to dislike about this. My ear tells me that the notch filter that many applications of the B110 place around 950 - 1250hz might be a good idea. There's definitely a little prominence in that range that I'd like to flatten out.
I'll have to listen to this combo a lot more before deciding on a permanent implementation of the D220Ti/PH612 and B110 but I think this combo is a winner.
After listening to the B110 with its usual partner the T27 Mylar dome tweeter, there's no contest at all. The waveguide with the D220Ti STOMPS the T27. That's surprising, as the T27 is a well regarded classic dome tweeter, but in my experience of vintage audio the greatest sonic advances have come at the top octaves.

I now have Dayton Classic 15" woofers in Valencia cabs on hand. These will be pressed into service with the B110 and D220Ti/PH612. The Daytons badly need some break in hours to loosen up but they're already showing promise in the Val cabs, producing measurable output down to 30hz in this room.
I'll try the Vals with the B110 mids and the waveguides tomorrow. Don't be surprised if that ends up being the featured system for the April Southeast Mi Audio Club meet here.

 

[Wayne1]

NLA EWave

I finally have my NLA Ewave speakers playing music.

It took far longer then I ever thought it would.

In between ordering parts, I refinished the cabinet, re-foamed the woofers. Purchased another woofer, when I found the "pair" I had consisted of one round magnet and one square magnet. The two drivers measured quite differently on my woofer tester.

The crossover is built externally. I used the design Zilch came up with for his ADVENT project.

I may play around with some different values at some time in the future.

The cabinet has two sets of binding posts, so I can bi-amp with my DCX-2496 for fine tuning.

I will say that the waveguide and Selenium compression drive is quite an improvement over the stock ADVENT tweeter, to my ears.

I do feel the rope caulk I added to the waveguide does cut down on the natural resonance of the plastic.

I was able to hear The EWave speaker built by lico a week ago, when I delivered his DE250 drivers. I heard quite a resonance in the voice region in the track he played me. This is greatly reduced in these speakers.

Hopefully, at some point in the future, I might be able to bring these speakers over to his place for a more direct comparison.

A great deal of thanks go out to Zilch for all the information he has posted about this project.

If you happen to have a pair of ADVENTs laying about, I highly recommend that you consider E-Waving them. It is a great improvement over stock and it is a lot of fun.

 

[Zilch]

It says the minimum recommended crossover frequency is 1.5 kHz @ 12 dB/octave.

That's a new data sheet; I don't recall it being that low, and it now shows the PWT response, which was not available when we started this. The other response curves shown there are measured on their exponential horn, which is why they appear so flat....

 

[Wayne1]

NLA EWave

FWIW, in my system, to my ears, I prefer the sound of the high frequency driver IN PHASE with the woofer, rather then wired 180 out.

I am rather sensitive to phase in speakers. When playing music with a male vocalist, it just does not sound correct, with the driver wired as per the diagram. I have swapped polarity quite a few times and in phase is what sounds best to me.

YMMV

 

[Zilch]

And his excellent pioneering bullnose NLA E'Wave implementation earns Wayne1 Official E'Waver appellation #42!

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

FWIW, in my system, to my ears, I prefer the sound of the high frequency driver IN PHASE with the woofer, rather then wired 180 out.

You should also try the standard HF comp filter; that one was worked out for the 8" square waveguide I used in mine. Looks like you only need a 16-Ohm resistor and 0.47 uF cap each to do that.... :yes:

 

[Wayne1]

Thank you, Zilch.

I'll change the crossover values and report back.

I am very proud to be #42. After all, it is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.