Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Very detailed. Bass goes to the lowest octave. Definitely worth the effort to build them. I am still playing with placement in room. The room is small 11 ft. by 10 ft..A door on each of the three walls. A window on the other wall. Look forward to seeing the Barzilay cabinets when they are completed .
 
As I stated many times I have been dragging my ass on getting mine done.. I have a sweet old 30 watt Sony 7045 to run them with to.. Warm weather is around the corner and I WILL finish mine.. I am using a old set of Aristocrat corner horns as I loved their bass with the Alnicho 16ohm 12w with Selenium d250 p and the big 14 inch horns ...My vice in the head Vandys are getting sterile .. I just snagged a pair of Utah 1500 for a buddy and that compression sound is huge !
 
Any suggestions for a horn and compression driver I can use with a 10" woofer

Cheapest with good sound possible :)
 
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Any suggestions for a horn and compression driver I can use with a 10" woofer

Cheapest with good sound possible :)

The Celestion CDX1-1446 ( the threaded version of the 1445 ) is a good performer ( & quite affordable ) .
- Zilch did some work with the bolt-on version ( the 1445 ).

Click the pic;



The desired ( inexpensive ) waveguide might as well be aDayton clone of the old JBL standby that Zilch so loved.
- 1/2 to 3/4" of the side plastic can be trimmed off to give it a slightly smaller profile .

Click the pic;



Assuming your 10" woofer has a rated sensitivity of less than 95db, you'll want to use the following generic crossover created by JackGiff .

LoSens_XO_Schematic_A.jpg


:)
 
I looked at the graph for the Celestion and it is not as flat as the 220s most of the others. At the same price +/-
 
I still think the Dayton D250T (or DT250T for the screw-on version) horn driver is the biggest bang for the buck, these days, for an E-wave design. I've subbed them directly for D220Tis, and they seem to be almost identical in performance.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I still think the Dayton D250T (or DT250T for the screw-on version) horn driver is the biggest bang for the buck, these days, for an E-wave design. I've subbed them directly for D220Tis, and they seem to be almost identical in performance.

Regards,
Gordon.

Thanks Gordon! that's good to know ( about the interchangeability ) .

For the poster asking above, here's a link to P.E. where they're currently on sale ( for stupid cheap, for a couple of more days ) .

Dayton dt250t-8

That, coupled with the Dayton H6512 Waveguide looks to fulfill the EconoWave requirements/definations.

:)
 
That is a great deal and ends Friday. It is tempting to build another pair. I have cabs, woofs, horns, and crossovrr boards.

Like I need another pair of speakers.
 
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I want to revise my previous statement. The Celestion has a good response and is flatter out higher. MCM has the on sale now for 33 bucks a pop.
 
Thanks Gordon! that's good to know ( about the interchangeability ) .

For the poster asking above, here's a link to P.E. where they're currently on sale ( for stupid cheap, for a couple of more days ) .

Dayton dt250t-8

...
:)

That looks to be clone of the Selinium D220Ti, is that right?

Let me know when they clone the seemingly unobtainium D2500Ti. The Neo version is shorter and, to my ear has less throat "anomalies". Similar to what JBL did in going from a 2" to 1.5" format. Also, the Neo size is the only way I found to build a workable coax setup, using the 6X6 waveguide and a deep 12".

I'm in the middle of repackaging my coaxial Karlson E-Waves into a small set for my trailer. Getting some use out of the scraps of birch paneling from last year's redo of the trailer. They will blend, baby! Also, the wide dispersion inside the Karlson never did work...
 
That looks to be clone of the Selinium D220Ti, is that right?

Let me know when they clone the seemingly unobtainium D2500Ti. The Neo version is shorter and, to my ear has less throat "anomalies". Similar to what JBL did in going from a 2" to 1.5" format. Also, the Neo size is the only way I found to build a workable coax setup, using the 6X6 waveguide and a deep 12".

I'm in the middle of repackaging my coaxial Karlson E-Waves into a small set for my trailer. Getting some use out of the scraps of birch paneling from last year's redo of the trailer. They will blend, baby! Also, the wide dispersion inside the Karlson never did work...


Yes, it's too bad the D2500Ti disappeared ( more or less quashed by Harman-JBL ?? in their take-over of Selenium ).

On a happier note, out of sheer curiosity I just ordered a pair of these ( for a micro box, SR project ).

I first saw these mentioned in a thread at P.E's TechTalk.

Click the pic;



The attractive ( to me ) features are;
  • Coated Titanium Diaphragm ( somewhat like the JBL aquaplased diaphragms ).
  • Polyimide surround ( supporting the metal dome & voice-coil ).
  • 1.4" diameter voice-coil as opposed to the 1.7" voice-coil of most "full sized", 1" exit compression drivers. A smaller diaphragm offers a bit more "tweeter like" performance ( though usually by sacrificing the lower octave capabilities / like any tweeter ) .
  • Low Fs ( of @ 700hz ) which helps the low-end performance of a compression driver. This is quite unusual in a diaphragm of this size & looks like it restores some of the bottom octave.
  • Small Size - Low Weight
  • Low Price

I won't get these for a while ( being in Canada ) & it'll take me more time after that to get any data points to report >> but I eventually will report back.

:)
 
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Yes, it's too bad the D2500Ti disappeared ( more or less quashed by Harman-JBL ?? in their take-over of Selenium ).

On a happier note, out of sheer curiosity I just ordered a pair of these ( for a micro box, SR project ).

I first saw these mentioned in a thread at P.E's TechTalk.

Click the pic;


...
:)
Well, they are on sale, price will probably never be lower, etc. They do look interesting.


I just discovered a pair of D2500's I stashed inside the cases my giant slant plate 2" horns live in, so now I have an extra set to play with.
 
Hi, so these are some speaker cabinets that my dad made a long time ago. I think he intended for them to be guitar speakers, as there is 1/4 plug on the back and they use 15 ohm Celestion G12-65 woofers, which are in fact guitar speakers. They also use Foster 025N30 horn drivers, and one is blown. On the back there is an L-pad that controls the horn.

These have been lying around for a long time, but I recently stumbled upon this whole Econowave thing. And I looked at these speakers and realized, "Hey, I bet I could make Econowaves out of these." I just wanted to make sure from you guys if in fact these would be good Econowaves.

I would have to replace the horn (maybe), the woofer and the crossover, and maybe put tubes in the port holes, so I would be grateful if you could steer me in the right direction. So far I've been eyeing these two woofers: (https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-12pc-8-12-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-334) (https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dc300-8-12-classic-woofer--295-320)
 

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Hi, so these are some speaker cabinets that my dad made a long time ago. I think he intended for them to be guitar speakers, as there is 1/4 plug on the back and they use 15 ohm Celestion G12-65 woofers, which are in fact guitar speakers. They also use Foster 025N30 horn drivers, and one is blown. On the back there is an L-pad that controls the horn.

These have been lying around for a long time, but I recently stumbled upon this whole Econowave thing. And I looked at these speakers and realized, "Hey, I bet I could make Econowaves out of these." I just wanted to make sure from you guys if in fact these would be good Econowaves.

I would have to replace the horn (maybe), the woofer and the crossover, and maybe put tubes in the port holes, so I would be grateful if you could steer me in the right direction. So far I've been eyeing these two woofers: (https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-12pc-8-12-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-334) (https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dc300-8-12-classic-woofer--295-320)


Expand the quoted area ( located above )!

Zonkers92 produced this nice overview of Zilch's design work ( pulled from a different web-site ).

I'll use it to give you some guidance.

In the line beginning with "Round#1, EconoWave Standard", click the word "Summary" .

That'll take you to a specific area ( of another of Zilch's mammoth ) threads where you will find a list of all the parts you need to buy ( as well as a network schematic ) to make the EconoWave Standard .

Note: to make a speaker that qualifies as a EconoWave, one has to have ( essentially ) one of Zilch's "approved" Constant Directivity horns ( that he measured & then designed for ).

- ie; It's highly doubtful that the little foster horn is going to pass muster ( unless you can measure it's polar responses, publish the findings & then prove it's a constant directivety device ) .

:)
 
Expand the quoted area ( located above )!

Zonkers92 produced this nice overview of Zilch's design work ( pulled from a different web-site ).

I'll use it to give you some guidance.

In the line beginning with "Round#1, EconoWave Standard", click the word "Summary" .

That'll take you to a specific area ( of another of Zilch's mammoth ) threads where you will find a list of all the parts you need to buy ( as well as a network schematic ) to make the EconoWave Standard .

Note: to make a speaker that qualifies as a EconoWave, one has to have ( essentially ) one of Zilch's "approved" Constant Directivity horns ( that he measured & then designed for ).

- ie; It's highly doubtful that the little foster horn is going to pass muster ( unless you can measure it's polar responses, publish the findings & then prove it's a constant directivety device ) .

:)

Thanks for helping me navigate this labyrinth of information. I figured the Foster horn wouldn't cut it :(

A few questions though: Is that crossover specifically tailored to that cabinet not just the Dayton driver? i.e. does my cabinet being ported require any modification to the crossover? Also, is that nifty PCB he has for the crossover available for purchase anywhere, or am I going to have to hotglue the components to some wood?
 
Thanks for helping me navigate this labyrinth of information. I figured the Foster horn wouldn't cut it :(

A few questions though: Is that crossover specifically tailored to that cabinet not just the Dayton driver? i.e. does my cabinet being ported require any modification to the crossover? Also, is that nifty PCB he has for the crossover available for purchase anywhere, or am I going to have to hotglue the components to some wood?

The pc board ( for the crossover ) isn't available ( so yes, you'll need to create your own mounting system for those components ).

Running ported ( or sealed ) or just using a different box-tuning, doesn't make much of a difference to the cross-over .

Get yourself some free box-tuning software (& then learn how to use it ) then input the woofer's parameters into the woofer editor ( if they aren't already there ) & then look at the expected alignments ( for your box size & possible duct tunings ).

WinISD (download page) is a popular program ( & free ! ) .

:)
 
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Guitar speakers tend to be very efficient, but without a lot of bass. Plenty of treble of course, so I would give them a listen before replacing them. They will definitely make it to the crossover frequency! As long as you can live with the 15 ohms impedance with your amplifier, there is a 16 ohm version of the crossover already done up. Close enough to 15 to not make much difference.

I've done few mix and match where the woofers are 16 or 4 ohms and the tweeter is 8 ohms, not a problem as the L-Pad makes up the difference in levels. Maybe order the 8 ohm parts along with the 8 ohm compression driver, along with the 16 ohm woofer parts just to try it out?

How big is that horn? Will the 6 X 12 waveguide cover the opening, or will you have to patch something in to fill gaps?
Is there room for the Deluxe waveguide?
 
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