Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. turnitdown

    turnitdown AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    I really like your project. Good luck and keep us, can't-get-enough-DIY, speaker lovers posted. I especially like the removable, hence adjustable, port baffle. I have seen that before and always kept that in mind. Some project or test box will definitely get that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  2. lloydrmc

    lloydrmc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    35
    I'm still very much in the process of learning about this. Elsewhere,Wayne has mentioned that the ideal is to design for the nulls to be just outside the horn vertical dispersion pattern. That way (IIRC) the nulls actually help support pattern control at lower frequencies. Again (IIRC) Wayne said this is what he achieved in his own design(s).
     
  3. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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    Thanks!!! I made a change to the 12", I picked up these Electro Voice (sexy name I always thought LOL) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-2-EV-1812-2148-12-Inch-Woofers-200-Watt-8-Ohm-Electro-Voice/182645127504?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

    I haven't been able to find any specs on them but they appear to be very high quality but most important they kick the CV woofers ass in this speaker:whip: They are 8 ohms VS the CV's at 4 ohms but they appear to blend seamlessly with the de250 and QSC clone WG :) The CV's sounded OK but these took them to a new level that allows them to seriously compete (and blend nicely) with the JBL 4722's Im running as mains:rockon:

    Strange to me they because the both measure identical in my room but the EV's are more efficient and allowed me to turn up the horns and they are just a perfect match and they were only $75.00+shipping for the PAIR:)
    This is a shot of the RTA on the VENU360 with the CV, the EV is about the same after matching the level higher with the WG...

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    Yes the 4722 is HUGE, those are 65" monitors :eek2: use mostly for TV/gaming...

    Heres another pic of the setup but thats all gonna change soon;)

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  4. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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  5. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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    damn pain in the ass to put pics up =([​IMG]
     
  6. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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    14
  7. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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    SO we have left over from the JRX 125's, 4 M115-a woofers, 2 wave guides and the crossovers for other projects like this DIY center "clone" of the 4722... It has an older JBL 2384 horn with a JBL 2430 CD I picked up cheap on Ebay and Im using a 4722n passive crossover for testing but it will have it's own Crown XLI 2002 with the active DSP settings for the older JBL 4622 this horn came from. I still have 2 more 15's I might try in a 2 way crossed at about 1000 HZ with a pair of H290C waveguides I ordered from Wayne Parnham. I'll try the H290C in place of the QSC but I can't see it sounding much better... SO I LOVE this project so far =)

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    300Z likes this.
  8. EvaXoXo

    EvaXoXo New Member

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    14
    Back on the EWAVE topic... I like the sound of the BETA 8 on the stock JRX crossover with the JBL/D220ti just sitting there free air as a quick mock up... Im planning a dual 8" (I have 6 Beta 8's here) with the JBL WG using the JRX 2.5 way crossover. It crosses at 2000hz and the bottom 8 would be a "helper" but Im gonna use the CV 12's as the "subs" in separate enclosures underneath probably crossed around 80-100hz and they would be BI amped and crossed over actively... Id build the dual 8 cabinets with a wide baffle and shallow depth with the horn mounted outside on top like a mini 4722 surround speaker... I also have the parts for the Ewave mini crossover for the cheap Selenium bi radial and Beta 8 that Zilch designed that will be built also. possibly in a 3 way with those spare JRX 15's :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  9. donprice

    donprice Wound up workin' at a gas station.... Subscriber

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    2,002
    Rock on brother!
     
  10. rooster2001

    rooster2001 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Murrells Inlet, SC
    Could someone more educated on speaker building than me (practically anyone would qualify) lend some assistance on an Ewave build I'm hoping to put together. The pictured cabinets will hopefully be mine next week. They're 27 x 24 x 22 OD which I'm told are 1" thick panels which I believe would give me 7.26 cu ft. Drivers I'm hoping to use are JBL 2213h with D220ti/H6512. Are these boxes/drivers a good fit? I have the parts for the <95 crossovers and would appreciate some help with how to setup the cabinets. I've tried some of the box tuning software and I'm an idiot on how to use them or how to interpret what I'm seeing. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
    2.jpg 1.jpg
     
  11. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    Its been a minute, but you will have better luck with the"deluxe" crossover and B&C DE250 and the larger QSC (spelling?) Wave guide. If you are going ahead with parts in hand >95dB and 220 driver, do the charge coupled version I did somewhere in this thread. Takes more caps, but it really smoothed the 220 response. Search 'charge coupled' in this thread. Similarly, search the thread for your jbl driver, someone surely used them at some point.

    There is also a lot of info over on the parts express forum, where zilch did a thread about test your PCD meddle, or something like that. That is where the deluxe crossover was developed. Much simpler and less parts count and performs much better.

    Member wiredbecker may still have boards, but they arent necessary.

    I was econowave #4, still have them, JBL 2235h woofs, B&C de250 compression drivers with QSC wave guides.

    I also tripped off the firestorm with Geddes over on DIYaudio that led to zilch convincing him to test the original ewave top. And perform it did, for very little money!

    Russellc
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
    turnitdown likes this.
  12. rooster2001

    rooster2001 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Murrells Inlet, SC
    Thanks for the reply Russellc. I've read Ewave threads until my head is swimming. I have a pair of charge-coupled JBL L96's and I agree on the merits of cc'ing. I've built a more "conventional" ewave with a 1.6 cu ft sealed box with JBL le10's and D220 and liked them very much. Mostly I was searching for a way to use these new boxes and if the drivers noted would be a good fit. The bigger cabinets were intriguing and hoped to incorporate some drivers / parts I already have. Thanks!!
     
  13. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    5,776
    Location:
    KC MO
    You can also adjust the volume by adding styrofoam blocks inside to reduce ithe volume.

    Mine use jbl cabs 4705 I think, 5 cu ft withe 15 inch 2235h woofs. These cabs have 4 vent tubes which allows tuning of the box. All 4 tubes give 40 hz, which was for the original 2225h drivers. The cool part is, the 5 cu ft is the same volume as the JBL 4430
    2 way monitor, which also used the 2235h woofer I use. By using "zilch plugs" plugging 1 of the tubes gives the 4430 tuning. Plugging 2 give a lower tuning and tighter bass, a popular tuning mod in the day for the 4430.
    This led me to use the 4430 crossover for the bass, and tuned the deluxe upper crossover to match. These still continue to impress, and I will never forget zilch emailed me when he saw these cabs on Craig's list in my area. He was the driving force behind this for sure. He is missed. There is a lot of good Zilch info on the Lansing Heritage forum, where he raised eyebrows and angst of the of JBL traditionalists. This led to the "diy" forum there. His "babies" thread is classic also!

    Russellc
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  14. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    If you want to read the traditionalists going bonkers on Lansing Heritage forum, I believe it was zilch's thread "Down and Dirty 4430" that touched it off. Great reading and insight to his genius.

    Russellc
     
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  15. biamped

    biamped New Member

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    13
    I have posted a thread on AK referencing Kornmach III, which may evolve into an ewave project after another forum member got me to reading this tome. I have a custom Cornwall cab having 4.68cu.ft of volume which had no name drivers installed. So far, the woofer choices are refoamed Mach 3's or Utah MH15R3R. Mids could be from the Mach 3's, or more likely the seleniumD220Ti and ewave horn. I don't know squat about crossovers but am willing to learn. Soooo, here goes.
     
  16. 4343

    4343 Super Member

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    1,100
    I have some similar boxes like those. Mine are only 3/4" thick. 7 cu. ft. is just about right for the LE14A's I picked up last year. Maybe a little big, and the huge panels need bracing. Bracing will shrink the interior volume, I'm keeping track of how much wood I'm adding so I can calculate the final volume.

    First thing I did was glue in a liner made of some 3/8" underlayment (particle board) I had on hand. The idea is to dampen the huge walls so they won't be ringing like a bell.
    Next I bought a bunch of 2X3's and started cutting them to fit in all the corners, followed by a lattice work all across each panel. Start with a long piece across the middle, then shorter pieces going the other way to form a big "+" on each side. The panels are so big I kept going with smaller pieces to break up each rectangle into smaller ones.
    Every piece is glued in and also coated with Liquid Nails so there will be no buzzes or rattles. Also screws wherever possible, just be sure to calculate the length carefully so they don't poke through the nice veneer! I take some pics so you can see what I'm talking about. Maybe tomorrow, It's been too hot here to even venture outdoors...

    I'm planning on putting some 2X4 braces between top and bottom and the sides, and a front to back brace or two as well. Those ones have to be bolted to the baffle, hopefully close to the thin spot between the woofer cutout and the tweeter hole.
    My baffle board was originally 3/4" ply, I bought a sheet of 3/4" MDF so I could duplicate the outside dimensions and put my woofer and tweeter where I want them. The way my grill is mounted means I could not make it any thicker, at least around the edges where it gets screwed in. I cut another piece that will slip inside the mounting flange though, so it will end up 1.5" thick every where else. It's like a sandwich with about a 1" wide rabbet all around. Have not cut those yet, although I had Home Depot cut the long sides to the correct size, I just need to trim one end of each piece.

    The boxes were pretty light when I got them, now they are getting to be a bear to move...
     
  17. 4343

    4343 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,100
    Took a close look at your pics.

    Two things:
    First, there does not seem to be a baffle board, just the grille. You'll probably need to make one that fits inside and screws to the back of the grille frame. I would front mount your drivers to some 1" MDF and add some corner strips all around the edges of the grille frame, probably 2X4, flat against the grille frame to give you something solid to screw the baffle to without worrying about the screws poking through the grille cloth. After bracing the panels the baffle will need to be small enough to fit between the braces, so I'd recommend using 2X2 bracing, and some removable cross braces. Zilch discovered some hardware store bits that worked pretty well for that.

    Second, that pegboard back needs to be replaced with 1" MDF...
     
  18. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

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  19. biamped

    biamped New Member

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    The cabs I am using are unusual in the type of plywood used. the construction consists of .5 x 1.5" solid wood strips glued together with 1/8" Birch glued to both sides. This seems to form a pretty stout laminate. As I sawed a larger hole for the 15" woofer, there was very little vibration caused by the jig saw and the panel seemed very solid, with a lack of voids.

    I now have the Utah woofer installed along with one Selenium waveguide and the original tweeter all connected to the no name 3 way crossover. The sound has a raspiness in the lower midrange which may be the result of crossover point to the midrange. Currently, the one speaker is driven by my Altec 9444 and I am just trying to let the system "break in" till other components arrive. The woofer has a been "refoamed" with a 3 line material suspension and probably will sound better after some hours on it. A new crossover which crosses to mid at 1200Hz is on order . Still trying to decide what to use as a tweet.
     
  20. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    skywave-rider and turnitdown like this.

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