Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[skywave-rider]

I'm PSYCHED!

Reversing the leads seems to have helped considerably, maybe its my imagination, ones thing for sure these econowaveguides kick ass and are not only well worth the small price of entry, but are one of the most fun speakers I have ever owned!

russellc

So you had the polarity of the woofer reversed in relation to the HF. Now they are both the same. Is that how Jackgiff runs his? Time for you to set up some RTA, haha. Then you can see what's up in the crossover region.

Ur psychin' me up!

 

[Russellc]

Hi Russellc,

Use a flashlight battery. Connect a couple of leads to the battery and quickly touch them to the speaker terminals. Positive on the battery will make the positive on the driver move out of it's basket; negative in.

I guess I'm going to have to order the waveguides and get going with this.

Regards,
John

Well, apparently its JBL protocal here to have the black input produce a positive cone movement. I was wondering whether or not the crossover in the thread was hooked up positive to positive in my application. That is what the crossover used showed, but different woofers were used in the various versions. Apparently not, or at least both the bass and the midrange seem improved. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here?



Russellc

 

[Russellc]

So you had the polarity of the woofer reversed in relation to the HF. Now they are both the same. Is that how Jackgiff runs his? Time for you to set up some RTA, haha. Then you can see what's up in the crossover region.

Ur psychin' me up!

Yes that's a problem, I'm flying blind here and really need that blasted Berhringher DEQ 2496 (as well as their 3400 crossover as well.)to properly do this, that's for sure. I think Zilch has tried this with a 2235H, but I may be the only one on this thread with 2225H. That being the case, I may need to try tweeking the crossover, but with out the RTA
I'm dead in the water there.

Once I get the other pair reconed to 2235H I 'll have more known info to work with.

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Just checked, and yes, phase inverted on EconoWave with JBL woofers, which are negative polarity per the 4647 spec sheet linked above.

You get those back near the wall, and the bass is going to be even better. There are several members here who use 2225H in that cabinet as their main woofs with satisfaction. There's no denying they have major punch!

[Y'all're havin' plenty good speaker fun with EconoWave, looks like.... :thmbsp: ]

 

[Russellc]

Just checked, and yes, phase inverted on EconoWave with JBL woofers, which are negative polarity per the 4647 spec sheet linked above.

You get those back near the wall, and the bass is going to be even better. There are several members here who use 2225H in that cabinet as their main woofs with satisfaction. There's no denying they have major punch!

[Y'all're havin' plenty good speaker fun with EconoWave, looks like.... :thmbsp: ]

I guess that explains that.:thmbsp:

russellc

 

[ValvTubeHead]

Wonder why you got those waveguides as opposed to the El Cheapo (338800-001) $10.00 jobs? To get direct bolt on? What will be your driver? (Sorry if OT).

The ...650-001 is simply a robust 1.5" epoxy resin version. I felt like splurging on what will eventually be integrated into furniture pieces. I'll be mating them up to BMS 4555's

 

[m4rz]

OMG, I am so jealous Russellc that you these setup!! I can't wait to get mine. Again, I am very very new to all this, so are you getting the behringer so that you can use an active crossover instead with the econowave? If so, I think I might try this instead of building the x-over (just to hear them).

Did I mention that I can't wait!!!!

 

[Zilch]

No one has yet worked out a compensation network for running EconoWave, i.e., D220Ti on PT waveguide, using an active crossover like CX3400.

Seems like it'd be fairly straightforward, though.... :yes:

 

[Russellc]

OMG, I am so jealous Russellc that you these setup!! I can't wait to get mine. Again, I am very very new to all this, so are you getting the behringer so that you can use an active crossover instead with the econowave? If so, I think I might try this instead of building the x-over (just to hear them).

Did I mention that I can't wait!!!!

NO, No like Zilch said. I want the 3400 for working with future projects so I dont have to cobble up a crossover in the beginning. Now the 2496 I could use right now in matching econowave guide to my woofer box! But he thinks it could be done. Start with the listed crossover points and slopes, add the high freq. compensation with passive parts....now again I need the RTA!

The crossover (The one worked out by Jack and Zilch in the thread) is perfect for econowave guide and has already been fully worked out. I must say that you will not be dissappointed in the results, it is really that good.

I am so impressed that I would go as far as to say everyone on the forum should try this. It is so inexpensive relatively speaking and sounds amazing. Perhaps this should be a "sticky"...really folks ignore this and miss out! Great project!
All those who dont try will really miss one of the more exciting speakers out there AND is truly accessable to anyone with a couple of woofers. I'm 52 and been playing with this stuff for a long time, and must say this is a speaker high point.

Now I have a great desire to try this with "more expensive drivers" and such, and do plan on trying the JBL 2425H once Zilch has time to test it and alter the crossover. ( my 2425H is screw on). All this is fine, but I have a feeling that these parts have quite a synergy, and sometimes "more expensive parts" not only isnt necessarily an improvement, sometimes not just a lateral change, but may be not as good! Wont stop me from trying, but without more test equipment I am kind of limited to known setups, which there are now several in the thread.( thanks to Jack and Zilch ):thmbsp:

Russellc

 

[m4rz]

I agree with the sticky part, as I didn't see it until Zilch pointed it out in one of my threads. My only concern with this is that I will like the horns so much with my A7's that I will be forced to find/buy (which I am in the process of anyway) 511b's and then either original drivers or the JBL's.
Ok, I get it, follow the entire econowave layout with passive x-overs. Then once I understand this stuff better, I could experiment with the active.
The one thing that I have noticed with AK, is that I am spending more money and collecting more!!! I am just hoping that I don't start to neglect all my house duties (lol..I said dooty) over the summer.

 

[Russellc]

One damn sure advantage of the econowave over the A7 is size! These JBL boxes here are 5 cu ft, not exactly small, but look at them next to the A7!:yes:

Go ahead and get your vintage 511B horns, they are very nice in a vintage way and I am not ready to get rid of them by a long shot. The E-waves are a "modern" speaker in most every sense of the word, in terms of dynamics, high frequency extension,
depth, imaging and all that crap that everyone wants from a speaker, plus the high efficiency thing. On top of that, its a killer sounding combination of parts that really work. The A7s project a midrange that can make you jump, image in a more vintage way, a little more diffuse manner, and do not have the extention on either frequency extreme of the econowave. Plenty enough of what is there for me, I love the A7s sound, its just very different.

russellc

 

[m4rz]

I definitely have an interest in the JBL's. I have been reading some posts over at audioheritage where JBL's seem to have a cult following. I just haven't found any that are within my budget as of yet. Eventually I want to use the A7's for my home theatre (behind the screen), but that won't be for awhile. In the interim I will be using them for music. I actually wouldn't have a problem getting JBL's like the one in the pic, by the wife. But, I want to make sure I am satisfied with my components (I will be posting them shortly once I get my mancave setup properly) before I start going horn crazy.
Looks like I am going to have to get the color code for the dark grey that my cabs are painted (your A7's are great looking Russellc). Econwave here I come.

 

[Russellc]

I definitely have an interest in the JBL's. I have been reading some posts over at audioheritage where JBL's seem to have a cult following. I just haven't found any that are within my budget as of yet. Eventually I want to use the A7's for my home theatre (behind the screen), but that won't be for awhile. In the interim I will be using them for music. I actually wouldn't have a problem getting JBL's like the one in the pic, by the wife. But, I want to make sure I am satisfied with my components (I will be posting them shortly once I get my mancave setup properly) before I start going horn crazy.
Looks like I am going to have to get the color code for the dark grey that my cabs are painted (your A7's are great looking Russellc). Econwave here I come.

There are several good threads along these lines with Zilch involved on the audioheritage site, the "Q&D" threads, the "Babies" thread and several others concerning 4430. Lots of similar reading there for sure. These A7 boxes are nice 828 versions, I suspect the seller restored them. I originally got them with 501 8B crossovers, which were NOS in the box! They had 515 8G woofers and 902 8B drivers on the later model dampened 511B. After buying a huge amount of Altec horns, drivers, etc I sold all the extra compression drivers and kept 802 8G. I ended up prefering 416 8C (later ones with improved magnet) and still need to put the 515 8Gs, 501 8B, older (and banged up) non dampened 511B, on that auction site (as well as a bunch of dyna stuff) to finance further projects. I think I will hang on the nice pair of 811 Bs I have for some future possible project, who knows.

russellc

 

[Russellc]

M4rz, have you received your stuff yet? Good grief I cant believe more people arent jumping on this bandwagon:scratch2: Truly one of the great speakers can be cobbled together for so little money. Any builders make sure to haul these things to all AK get togethers to spread the word of exactly what these speakers can do. More likely than not, you are not listening to anything this nice.:yes: A perfectly scienced out driver and crossover that performs just as it should, what more can an audio guy want?

Russellc

 

[jackgiff]

No one has yet worked out a compensation network for running EconoWave, i.e., D220Ti on PT waveguide, using an active crossover like CX3400.

Seems like it'd be fairly straightforward, though.... :yes:

OK, I'm in. Just ordered a CX-3400, so it should be here in about 4 days.

I will play with it using the EconoWave and see what happens. I only have JBL LE14, Altec 416Z, and Trusonic 120FR and 150FR woofers, so won't be able to try lots of common ones. Maybe someone can loan me some 12 and 15 inch ones to try.

I am anticipating moving up the learning curve another notch with this investment. JackLab will never rival ZilchLab though, I fear.

Good grief, what if we end up with another pair of "keepers?"

 

[nerdorama]

Hi Econo-wavers,

I just ordered a pair of waveguides from JBL. I'll get the drivers ordered soon.

I've looked through the thread but can't seem to find any indication of the sensitivity range available with the Lpad of the crossover so I can make a good match with a woofer. It seems to be around 95dB, but I'd like to know with more certainty the sensitivity range I should be looking at for the woofer choice.

Thanks,
John

 

[jackgiff]

Hi Econo-wavers,

I just ordered a pair of waveguides from JBL. I'll get the drivers ordered soon.

I've looked through the thread but can't seem to find any indication of the sensitivity range available with the Lpad of the crossover so I can make a good match with a woofer. It seems to be around 95dB, but I'd like to know with more certainty the sensitivity range I should be looking at for the woofer choice.

Thanks,
John

Hi John,

The EconoWave is a very neat project, and you will end up with some great sound.

For woofers with an SPL around 95 Db or less, use the crossover dated 3-18-08 as shown in post number 84 of this thread. For woofers with SPL's greater than 95 DB, use the schematic dated 3-14-08 as shown in post number 66, except use 1.5 Millihenries and 12 Microfarads in the low pass, since the low pass for the 3-14-08 schematic is specific for a JBL LE14A and is 900 Hz rather than the desired 1200 Hz..

Good luck, and enjoy.

 

[Russellc]

Hi John,

The EconoWave is a very neat project, and you will end up with some great sound.

For woofers with an SPL around 95 Db or less, use the crossover dated 3-18-08 as shown in post number 84 of this thread. For woofers with SPL's greater than 95 DB, use the schematic dated 3-14-08 as shown in post number 66.

Good luck, and enjoy.

I am using the 3-18-08 crossover with JBL 2225h (97db) I believe. should I try the other crossover? It sounds great as is, what changes would I notice? The high freq section is plenty hot enough for the 2225H!
should I keep the 3-18-08 woofer circuit (1200 hz) or change out for the (900 hz) woofer circuit along with the 3-14-08 high freq circuit?

Thanks,
Russellc

 

[nerdorama]

Thanks Jack.

I've got some EV SP12B's that I might try, but I wanted to have a feel for which choices would be best. I remember mention on another forum that Eminence Beta 8's work well with a subwoofer and thought I might give them a try too.

John

 

[Zilch]

Good grief, what if we end up with another pair of "keepers?"

Heh.

JackLab will soon overflow with "Keepers." :tresbon: