• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Tube amp topologies

Isn't the input signal impressed onto the grid?

Correct, input signal from the source or prior stage of the amplifier enters the grid and exits through the anode (aka plate).

Here is a fairly simple schematic showing a fairly generic circuit. From left to right, from the input, the signal enters the first triodes grid and exits the anode which enters the next triodes grid and once again exists the anode where it then enters the power tubes grid. The power tubes plate is then connected to one leg of the output transformers primary winding.

700x472300bMk1schematic.gif
 
PP can be class A, AB or B.

Ok, then I was guessing wrong. To what does the "push-pull" refer then?

Here is a fairly simple schematic showing a fairly generic circuit.

Thanks Dave. I know you answered a bunch of questions there. I'm still wondering what's going on inside the tube though. Why is the signal out bigger than the signal in? (I'm guessing again) If the grid is a filter then it seems like there are a heap of electrons coming from the cathode, the grid lets through a number proportionate to the input voltage, and the anode collects the ones that get through. So you start with a big voltage and only use what you need but it's bigger than the input. Am I getting close?

It's kinda cool being the noob and not trying to translate speaker-ese into English. :D


Ray
 
During the vacuum tube's construction, one of the last steps when sealing up the tube involves removing any remaining gasses. The function of the "getter" is to absorb any residual gasses. Getter is the part of the tube that often looks like it's chrome on the inside of the glass.

Note too in most consumer tube designs the getter continues to absorb gasses throughout the life of the tube and not just at the initial pumpdown and flashoff. As gasses are absorbed the shiny flash disappears. Also, not all tubes use the flash type getter. Svetlana (=C=) released the short lived 6550 B3 and a version of the EL34 in the 90s that used "pill" type getters attached to the plate...no flash. I believe their 811-3, 10 & 160 w/o plate cap used pill getters too.

Many transmitting type tubes use strange metals for the plate like tantalum that act as getters when they heat up so no getter flash here either. These types tend to run with red or orange plates at max dissipation. And then there are the interesting industrial tubes like some versions of the 6336 that had relatively massive graphite plates that were lined with zirconium. The zirconium provided the gettering function when the plate was heated but these usually ran w/o color at max dissipation.
 
I'm dumb, I might be qualified to explain the "control grid" to others like me. It's function is to control the flow of electrons between the anode and the cathode in the tube. It's position and makeup determine some tube properties like amplifcation factor and transconductance. I'll let someone else convert transconductance into english, but what is important is that it is inversely proportional to noise. High transconductance tubes have lower noise characteristics. Amplification factor describes the amount of gain a tube has. You will often run across the terms high mu, medium mu, and low mu. These are descriptions of the amplification factors. 6SL7s and 12AX7s are examples of common high mu dual triodes.

Again, I'm not particularly good with this stuff, so if my description is way off, feel free to correct me.

<snip>

Transconductance is the property of a device whereby a voltage at the input terminal is converted to a current at the output terminal. Therefore we have current(amps)/emf(voltage). Since this is the inverse of resistance (ohms) the old unit of measure was the mho or ohm spelled backwards. The modern unit is siemens or S .

Although most tubes were specd out in the old tube manuals in mhos or more conveniently as umohs, I always liked the British units of mA/V. It was a lot more intuitive.
 
... bipolar mode ...

...
Triodes have one and only one "control grid". Triodes can be used in Single Ended Triode (SET) circuits, and in push-pull circuits. If a true triode is used in any circuit as an output tube, it can not utilize "pentode" or "ultra-linear" mode.

Pentode tubes have three control grids, and the addition of the extra grids allows the pentode to be run in various different output modes: triode, pentode, and ultra-linear. Triode mode mimics a true triode tube, is often of a lower power than the others, but is popular because of it's sonics....


Hello,
have a look at this one:

link

graph

link

Kind regards,
Darius
 
Ok, then I was guessing wrong. To what does the "push-pull" refer then?

Ray

hey-Hey!!!,
That is a good question. The tube at the end of a TX load( for this example ) either tries to turn off current flowing or turn on more. You can lable either one of these actions push, or pull...but pick one for turning the current off( as with a decreasing, or more negative control grid voltage), and the other will apply to turning the current on more( as with an increasing control grid voltage ).

In SE you've got one tube doing one or the other depending on what part of the signal it is responding to. With a PP amp, both sides are in action, at one end of the TX's primary it is turning on more, while at the other it is turning off at the same rate.
cheers,
Douglas
 
Descriptions look really good to me. I would bring up 2 possible improvements.

1. If you can - small diagrams of a typical push pull arrangement and typical single ended arrangement

2. You might want to mention that the pentode can be run in triode mode in a single ended amp. The omission of that might lead a newcomer to think that is not an option.

Great job all around however

SE



PP

 
This is a nice thread Ed has got going here. It helps clarify many things for me. However, one question I had (probably many other newbies like me also), is how does a triode amplify a signal? So, I read up a little bit and came up with two ways of explaining the phenomenon – a graphical method using the triode characteristics, and an analytical method based on a equivalent circuit representation of the triode.

In this post, I would like to try and explain the graphical method, which I think can be understood more easily than the equivalent circuit method.

For many of our resident gurus, this is, I am sure old hat, and something they could talk about in their sleep. I hope you will bear with me, and correct any errors or omissions. OK, here goes.

Tube Components

A triode has an anode (positively-charged), a cathode (negatively-charged) and a control grid. When the cathode is heated (either directly or indirectly), electrons emanate from the cathode and travel towards the anode or plate.

The control grid’s function is to somehow regulate this flow of electrons. By charging the control grid to be more negative than the cathode, some of the electrons emanating from the cathode are repelled back to the cathode. Others make it through to the plate (anode).

For the electrons to pass through to the plate, the grid must be more negative than the cathode. If the grid was positive with respect to the cathode, it will attract all the electrons from the cathode, and none will get through to the plate (my interpretation).

The signal to be amplified is impressed on the grid. This signal is a time-varying signal with components at various frequencies. To keep the tube in conduction, we have to ensure that the grid is more negative than the cathode at all times. That is, at the positive-most excursion of the signal to be amplified, the grid must still be more negative than the cathode, for the tube to conduct.

Tube Parameters

The tube amplifies the signal imposed on its grid due to the following properties of the tube:
  • Plate Resistance: Denoted by the symbol “Rp”, the plate resistance is defined as the change in plate voltage divided by the corresponding change in plate current, at a given grid voltage. It is important to note that if you change the grid voltage from one value to another, the same change in the voltage at the plate need not produce the same change in plate current. That is, let us say that at a grid voltage of -3V, a change in plate voltage of 10V produces a change in plate current of 1mA. If the grid voltage is changed to -6V, the same 10V change in plate voltage need not produce the same 1mA change in plate current. The tube’s non-linear nature is the reason for this. Thus, the plate resistance is dynamic – keeps changing. To maintain a constant plate resistance at all operating points, the tube must be operated in its linear region, where the tube characteristics are denoted by straight lines parallel to each other.
  • Transconductance: Denoted by the symbol “gm”, the transconductance is defined as the change in plate current divided by the corresponding change in the grid voltage, at a given plate voltage.
  • Amplification factor: This is the product of Rp and gm. It is usually denoted by the symbol for mu, and is also defined as the change in plate voltage divided by the corresponding change in grid voltage, at a given (constant) plate current.

It is the amplification factor mu that multiplies (amplifies) the voltage (analog signal) impressed on the grid, and makes it available as a change in the voltage at the plate.

Here is a triode, connected to the high-voltage B+ supply through the load resistor RL. The cathode of the triode is grounded. Vout denotes the point where the amplified output is obtained.

site1078.JPG


Triode Plate Characteristics

Now consider the plate characteristics of a popular triode.

site1079.JPG


The y-axis shows the current through the plate in mA. The x-axis shows the plate voltage in V. The characteristic curves show the relationship between the plate voltage and the plate current at different values of the grid voltage.

We want the grid to be more negative than the cathode for the tube to conduct. Also, when a signal is imposed on the grid, we want the grid to continue to be more negative than the cathode even at the positive-most excursion of the signal to be amplified.

So, we have to choose a base-line for operation of the triode. That is, when there is no signal present on the grid, what should be the plate voltage and therefore the current through the tube? Any signal now imposed on the grid will cause the operating point of the tube to shift from its base-line value.

So, if we pick the following base-line points:
  • Plate voltage = 300V when plate current = 0
  • Plate current = 10mA when the plate voltage = 0.

The two points above determine points on the x-axis and y-axis respectively. We can join these two points by a straight-line to get:

site1080.JPG


The line is also called the load line. The operating point with no-signal on the grid is determined by the choice of the grid voltage. So, if we pick a grid voltage of -6V, the plate voltage is around 160V, and the plate current is around 5mA, and this is the base-line or quiescent operating point of the tube.

It is important to remember that the grid must be negative with respect to the cathode. Let us say that the audio signal imposed on the grid is a 2V (peak-to-peak) sine wave. Thus, the grid voltage will rise to -5V when the input signal is at its maximum, and fall to -7V when the input signal is at its minimum.

Now, we impress on the grid the 2V (peak-to-peak) sine wave.

site1081.JPG


With no signal, the grid is at -6V. With the passage of time (shown by the arrow), the voltage on the grid rises to -5V, and then drops down to -7V. (The dashed lines enclosing the sine-wave on the grid are perpendicular to the load line.)

The change in plate voltage is obtained by projecting the grid voltage points to the load line, and then further projecting those points to the plate voltage axis (x-axis).

You can see that the voltage at the plate changes between 170V and 145V (approximately). That is, a 2V (peak-peak) input signal produces a 25V (peak-peak) signal on the plate. This gives an amplification factor of 25/2 = 12.5.

As long as the plate is operated in the linear portion of its characteristics, the amplification factor will remain constant.

Further, notice that as the grid signal undergoes a positive excursion (rises to -5V), the plate voltage reduces to its low of 145V. As the grid signal undergoes a negative excursion, the plate voltage rises to its maximum of 170V. That is, the signal has undergone a phase inversion as it gets amplified.

The next step is to analyze the triode using an equivalent circuit, but I will leave that for later, if there is interest.

References
  1. Basic Electronics and Linear Circuits, N. N. Bhargava, D. C. Kulshreshtha, S. C. Gupta
  2. Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design, Bruce Rozenblit
 
Last edited:
I won't sticky this yet as it's still an active thread and sticky's can get lost at
the top of the page, but when it dies down I will.

Continue along folks,
Keg

(Great thread ED)
 
Without derailing this thread, I'd like to recommend John Rider's classic text "Inside the Vacuum Tube" as a rather friendly read for the initiate trying to understand the anatomy of and principles behind the electron tube (and for those who prefer the page to the screen:wave:). It hasn't left the bathroom since I bought it.

Other classic engineering texts (online) can be found here. This virtual repository of books from the golden age of tube audio here is astounding and is quite an asset for those who don't have the funds for purchasing several rare books. There you will also find the above-mentioned text.

Lastly, Audio Amateur Press has reprinted several of these classic texts in paperback form, Inside the Vacuum Tube being one. Old Colony Sound Lab has a comprehensive stock here.

I was thinking of linking to other sites dedicated to the same topic of this thread, but I think AK needs it's own "tube amps for dummies", uninterrupted by outside websites.

Great work here, Squidward.

-Brinkman
 
Ok, we've got the basic topologies down. How about some mods, tweaks, and variations? Feedback (local or global)? Effects of different rectifiers, tube vs. SS, different types, etc.?

Thanks for all this edumacation! I know it takes a bit of time to bring us up to speed but I'm a selfish bastard and I want to suck your brains dry. ;)

Ray
 
Sticky the thread is great.:thmbsp: Now my question is more of the metal can vs the glass bottle. I saved a Ken-Rad 5z4 MG can that is perforated I suppose for heat dissapation. It's 4.5 inches long and about an inch in diameter. Tallest tube I have seen:yes: Have not tried it as it rattles a bit when handled and I don't have the gear to test it. Thought of just trashing it but--- Any info would be most appreciated. :thmbsp:
 
Last edited:
I'm writing this for a few friends, it's meant to be an entry level primer on tube amp topologies. I'd like to keep things very general, so that a newbie to the hobby can gain some vocabulary for the various tube types and output topologies. There are exceptions to probably everything I will say, but I wanted to share what I could in as general language as possible. There are other threads for hard-core techies, this one is for the novice.

Triodes have one and only one "control grid". Triodes can be used in Single Ended Triode (SET) circuits, and in push-pull circuits. If a true triode is used in any circuit as an output tube, it can not utilize "pentode" or "ultra-linear" mode.

Pentode tubes have three control grids, and the addition of the extra grids allows the pentode to be run in various different output modes: triode, pentode, and ultra-linear. Triode mode mimics a true triode tube, is often of a lower power than the others, but is popular because of it's sonics. Pentode mode usually uses a tube to more of it's maximum output potential, and often gets the highest power ratings out of a tube. It's generally fallen out of favor, but making a comeback in certain DIY circles. Ultra-linear mode is sort of a compromise between the two, with power ratings between triode and pentode. Ultra-linear mode is only possible if the output transformer has a special tap that supports this use.

There are three basic output topologies for tube amps: Single Ended (SE), Push-Pull (PP), and "Output Transformer-Less" (OTL). OTL amps do not use an output transformer, are fairly exotic due to the number and size of tubes requires, and other factors. They are worthy of mentioning, but beyond the scope of a document aimed at a novice. As both SE and PP amps require an output transformer (OPT), the characteristics of that transformer will dictate many factors about the amp. Generally speaking, an output transformer will be either a single ended OPT, or a push-pull OPT. Either PP or SE OPTs can have an ultra-liner (UL) tap. If your output has it, you can optionally use it. One could argue that the output transformer is the most critical part in a tube amplifier.

A Single Ended amp uses a single output tube. If the tube is a native triode (300B, 2A3, etc.) this is a SET amp. You can run a pentode in Single Ended Pentode (SEP) mode as well, but it's not a SET amp. Using a pentode, you can have a Single Ended Pentode (SEP), and if your transformer supports it a Single Ended Ultra-Linear (SEUL) mode as well. It is possible to switch between these modes.

Push Pull uses a pair of tubes to power the speaker. Triode, Pentode, and UL modes are all available here, too, depending on the choice of tube and transformer.

Parallelism is also possible, usually for more power. A Parallel Single Ended (PSE) amp will use more than one tube run in single ended mode. A Parallel Push Pull (PPP) amp will use two or more pairs of outputs. While it's usually easy to spot a Parallel Push Pull amp because of the number of output tubes (4, 6, 8, etc.), the most common Parallel Single Ended amps can resemble a Push-pull amp, as each have 2 output tubes. Generally speaking, parallel amps are not as common as non-parallel. Vintage parallel push pull amps were often PA type amps. Parallel Single Ended amps seem to be more common in modern times, as people want more power while trying to retain some single ended sonic characteristics.

Single ended amps are generally prised for their sonics, but put out less power than push-pull amps. They are generally simpler and have less parts than a push-pull amp. They tend to be fussier about hum and noise, so particular attention must be paid to the quality of the power supply, amplifier layout, careful heater wiring, and other factors that induce noise. In some ways, parts selection becomes more critical because there are fewer of them to begin with. This can work to a DIYers economic advantage too, as sometimes it's possible to use a budget for fewer but higher quality parts. While circuit choice is still very important, due to the simplicity of the design, most SE circuits resemble each other to a great degree.

Push-pull amps generally have more power than SE amps for any given tube. Generally speaking, they tend to be more complex then SE amps, with a higher parts count and more tubes. They have some noise-rejection qualities inherent in their topology, and sometimes this can present less of a problem to get noise free. Choice of circuit can be of particular importance in a push-pull amp, some can really sound better than others. There is also a greater number of circuits to choose from, as different designs handle the more complicated push-pull circuitry in different ways. Parts selection is still important, but perhaps circuit choice is even more critical in a push pull amp.


Thanks a ton!! This is really nice and easy to understand. Pl. keep adding to it and elaborate more may be using some diagrams or pictures.
 
Not to deter from Ed's intro here, Brinkman's posting of Pete Millett's site for his great downloadable library should be of interest to all newcomers. I can recommend the book by York as a good primer. Also the 3 volume primer by Crowhurst is good too. You might also check out Briggs and Hartley as alternatives.

A very good "modern" primer in book form is Bruce Rosenblit's Audio Design book. You can get it at Parts-Express and from Old Colony. I recently read Morgan Jones Valve Amplifiers,2nd edition (from the library). I'm a toob-noob too, and Jones was too often over my head, I'd rather spend the $60 on tubes/trannies, but I think it is a good read for experienced toob-heads.

Good listening,
Mike 8>)
 
The grid doesn't add or take away electrons, it simply impedes the flow of electrons through the vacuum by it being more positive or negative. The tube is a "valve", and the grid is the handle.

Yes, in fact tubes were originally called "Fleming Valves" after their inventor. Not so long ago (well, a couple of decades ago) Mullard was still calling them "thermionic valves." In England vacuum tubes amps are still called valve amps.

It's the control grid without which the tube could not be an amplifier. With the control grid as the only grid, we already have a triode, a perfectly good design for voltage amplifiers and even for modestly powered power output stages. The screen and suppressor grids are enhancements, or refinements over the basic triode, that make power tubes more efficient and able to handle more power.
 
I think you got your point across very well Squidward. Someone very new to tubes needs to know the lay of the land.

What is harder to understand for newbies is why anyone would ever choose a low power amp or use "extra" tubes as in an OTL. The complex interaction between amplifier and speaker (not to mention the connecting cable) is rarely well explained. I am still searching for that explanation if anyone is out there.

It took me a very long time to come to the SE/horn combination because it is so very old school; none I knew had ever even heard of such a thing. I wish I would have found it a few thousand dollars sooner! I would love to do that favor for someone someday. I feel like I have to give back (pay it forward) to the forums that have helped me learn.

John
 
Back
Top Bottom