Listened to a $28K Snell/Krell system
- Thread starter VintInfinity
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Inspiribomb
Enjoy the journey
Sounds like it would be quite an impressive system to listen to. Considering you heard it only a few days after it was set up, perhaps it wasn't fully broken in? Who knows, go back in a few months and see if your impressions are the same.
And many, many very nice speakers need or could benefit from a subwoofer. I'm not sure why there is this belief that if speakers benefit from a sub or need a sub to achieve full-range sound that they are crap, but its simply not true.
And many, many very nice speakers need or could benefit from a subwoofer. I'm not sure why there is this belief that if speakers benefit from a sub or need a sub to achieve full-range sound that they are crap, but its simply not true.
doucanoe
Registered Audio Abuser
I absoultely agree and will provide an example.
A high end audio shop here in town has a lot of tasty product lines and set-up systems running. They have moved to a new location now but at the old store, they had four treated rooms to listen to gear along with the storefront area.
The front of the store had glass wall along the streetside and was pretty much impossible to manage a "treated" room effect.
I had listened to (for example) very nice gear in the front set-up's that included big buck offerings from B&W, Dynaudio, Piega, Chord, VTL and McIntosh among others.
Many times listening to these systems in the front left me a little underwhelmed. When I would go back and they had set-up the same system in one of the treated rooms and listened, I was very impressed. The difference was night and day.
Even though I know better, it was hard to believe I was listening to the same system.
Room, room treatment and set-up make a world of difference.
RC
wineslob
Wiping out white van
Well, I would hope yours would sound better. The Kappa 9's were hardly a cheap speaker. $3000 a pair new in 1987 (or about $5.5 K in 2008). The Snells can easily be had for just over $2000 and the Dynaudios are about $1500.
On top of that, as Grumpy said, you have tweaked and set up your system to perfection, while that is usually not the case in most audio stores.
I sure am glad that there were a LOT of guys back in the 70's and 80's who were willing to put out HUGE money to buy equipment then, so that we can get it on the cheap now. Wonder what the next generation is gonna do?
On top of that, as Grumpy said, you have tweaked and set up your system to perfection, while that is usually not the case in most audio stores.
I sure am glad that there were a LOT of guys back in the 70's and 80's who were willing to put out HUGE money to buy equipment then, so that we can get it on the cheap now. Wonder what the next generation is gonna do?
KeninDC
Hazy Cosmic Jive
I'd venture to guess that the Krell system should not have been matched with the Snells. My dealer has essentially the same top-end Krell system with $15,000 Avalon Acoustics speakers and, after about two hours of listening over a period of three days, I wanted to weep because the music was so sweet.
doucanoe
Registered Audio Abuser
I have listened to many small 2-ways that cost an arm and a leg and would benefit from a sub that I would buy in a heartbeat.
Dynaudio has always been a hit and miss affair for me. However, on the "cheap" side of the spectrum, The now discontinued Dynaudio Audience 52 SE (needs to be the SE and not the original Audience 52) comes to mind.
Listen to these if you can on some quality SS and be prepared to write a check. You will forget quickly about the fact that they don't hit the bottom octave or so.
Same with the Dynaudio Special 25 in the big bucks catagory. This relatively small standmount retailed for over 5K and also didn't hit the lowest octave. The Special 25 is another that had me drooling. I was seriously considering how I was going to find the cash to put these $5000 limited bass extension speakers in my home.
I couldn't pull it off but I came damn close.
RC
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
I tried to impress that when I said he didn't have the sub hooked up yet because they just put the Krell stuff in the day before. I never once said it was bad, even mentioning how nice it was several times. It's all about price to performance for me.
I think he knows what he is doing, it did sound very, very good. Much cleaner than my system and I could hear string noises and other things more clearly.
When he gets the nicer pair of Snells in there, I think it will be that much better. Especially when the sub allows them to breathe more easily.
What I was trying to say, was that for how great it sounded, compared to a $28K system... my system keeps me happy and is in some ways more enjoyable to me. If I ever get a better room and nicer preamp, I have room for improvement.
Also, the Dynaudio's were amazing.. just not my cup of tea. If the system wasn't about $10K, I wouldn't mind having that setup... again, I just like my system more because I like a full range wall of sound.
Not talking trash on any of this stuff, just thanking AK for getting me this far.
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
They were great without one, I would say very good for a 6.5" woofer and a 6.5" mid... I wasn't knocking them.
A slim tower can't possibly fit all the bass drivers in there. I am used to four 12's, so I wanted more sub bass. Doesn't mean the Snells are trash, quite the opposite.
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
The Snells were there before the Krell amps. They had been used for awhile. He only had those in there because he is waiting on the nicer pair to arrive.
I agree 100% with the second statement. Although he seems to go with ported subs, which usually don't sound as good to me when compared to sealed boxes.
It's all about system synergy and integration of the frequency ranges.
wineslob
Wiping out white van
:yes:
When I first got my Ap's up and running, I thought "where's the bass?" It was there alright, but not the typical cone bass. When it was/is supposed to be there, you feel it. Above the "you feel it" range, it's tuneful, detailed, and well integrated with the rest of the system. (good cone systems do the same thing)
Like botrytis, I've come to the conclusion that many people don't know what quality bass is all about, they just haven't exprienced it before.
I have to agree on the setup issue - I've never heard a system in a shop that sounded as good as my home systems, though I know that some of them would be better in the right setup (having heard the same gear elsewhere). That aside, thanks for your comments - I'd love to see more posts like the one that started the thread.
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
There was some, but it wasn't low.. I only really like sealed cabs *usually* for nice quick, tight bass.
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
Speaking of more posts, I had an amazing experience today. A friend took me to the shop that he mentioned and I thought I had gone to, but it was about a block away and totally nondescript and hidden in plain sight.
Best stereo I have ever heard, anywhere... Haven't heard too many, but it was literally spectacular in every way.
The guy that owns the place talked a whole bunch and just had a fire for good music on fine systems... he made sure we knew that it wasn't about all the mumbo jumbo expensive gear and class A ratings, and that it was about natural sounding music. He was a bit crazy I think, but really cool.
He mods all the speakers and amps with better wiring I guess and then assembles systems with amazing synergy.
So what we listened to was a pair of MBL speakers. I don't know the model, but they were the crazy beehive looking set which were biamped with tubes. I will try to find a link. I had seen them through AK a few times so I instantly wanted to listen when I saw them standing in front of me ( http://www.mbl-germany.de/Reference_html/101_e.html )
Anyway, the most amazing soundstage ever and you could go anywhere in the room and it sounded great. He put on some classical at my request and it felt like the sound was coming from the hall the recording was made in. Sound about 100 feet across in this small room. I cannot describe it with words very well. It was that good. I put my ear right up to them and it was so smooth and not fatiguing in any way.
We talked a whole bunch, he gave me some tips to improve my Kappas and even gave me this strange little tire inner tube isolator thing for free. He said try it on everything... he was a nut, in a good way. He has chilled with Arnie Nudell and Bob Carver and Nelson Pass to name a few... very fun time. I left with a smile.
He knew we didn't have the money for any of it and he was still just as helpful and enthusiastic.
$180,000 stereo system... WOW
I have a few business cards, all his sales are by word of mouth... so if you live in or near the east Bay Area and want to go there just PM me... he likes to keep it low key.
He also showed us some Magneplanars when I asked to hear them and he had a ton of other stuff too. Tubes everywhere.
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doucanoe
Registered Audio Abuser
Speaking of more posts, I had an amazing experience today. A friend took me to the shop that he mentioned and I thought I had gone to, but it was about a block away and totally nondescript and hidden in plain sight.
Best stereo I have ever heard, anywhere... Haven't heard too many, but it was literally spectacular in every way.
The guy that owns the place talked a whole bunch and just had a fire for good music on fine systems... he made sure we knew that it wasn't about all the mumbo jumbo expensive gear and class A ratings, and that it was about natural sounding music. He was a bit crazy I think, but really cool.
He mods all the speakers and amps with better wiring I guess and then assembles systems with amazing synergy.
So what we listened to was a pair of MBL speakers. I don't know the model, but they were the crazy beehive looking set which were biamped with tubes. I will try to find a link. I had seen them through AK a few times so I instantly wanted to listen when I saw them standing in front of me ( http://www.mbl-germany.de/Reference_html/101_e.html )
Anyway, the most amazing soundstage ever and you could go anywhere in the room and it sounded great. He put on some classical at my request and it felt like the sound was coming from the hall the recording was made in. Sound about 100 feet across in this small room. I cannot describe it with words very well. It was that good. I put my ear right up to them and it was so smooth and not fatiguing in any way.
We talked a whole bunch, he gave me some tips to improve my Kappas and even gave me this strange little tire inner tube isolator thing for free. He said try it on everything... he was a nut, in a good way. He has chilled with Arnie Nudell and Bob Carver and Nelson Pass to name a few... very fun time. I left with a smile.
He knew we didn't have the money for any of it and he was still just as helpful and enthusiastic.
$180,000 stereo system... WOW
I have a few business cards, all his sales are by word of mouth... so if you live in or near the east Bay Area and want to go there just PM me... he likes to keep it low key.
Isn't it great to speak with knowledgable individuals like that. Sometimes they are not that helpful but others go out of their way to explain their systems and discuss audio in general. Just as long as they don't try to tell you what you are hearing I'm all for it.
The crazier the better. Their enthusiasm is infectious!
RC
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
We talked about that too...
it was so much fun... my face hurt from smiling when we were leaving... even still
it was so much fun... my face hurt from smiling when we were leaving... even still
jimfet
Lunatic Member
I agree. Plus you listened to what he likes to hear the way he likes to hear it. I also agree it's hard for some folks to listen to real bass. Not bass or highs that have been painted. Some folks will think a system sounds bad for what they don't hear on theirs. But alot of what they hear on theirs should not be there.
VintInfinity
Tactophonic
I never criticized it... and yes, it may not be set up to for optimal sound.
All I wanted to say was that 39Hz isn't low enough for my taste in bass. I liked that system.anyway, I'm past all that and have discovered much beyond...