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Minimus 7 Loudspeakers - Measurements

Inquiry:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207100

Response:

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O.K., so how 'bout if we invert the tweeter polarity:

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So I have to first of all thank you for your work and posting the results, and then I have to ask what does this mean?

OK, I'll admit it, I have no clue what it means (the above graph), even as I read this thread last night, I could get a little out the comments after you posted similiar graphs/results, but for the average smoe like me, it might as well be written in chinese or something. Can anyone provide a translation?

BTW, nice layout inside such a small space. Thanks, YD
 
OK, I'll admit it, I have no clue what it means (the above graph), even as I read this thread last night, I could get a little out the comments after you posted similiar graphs/results, but for the average smoe like me, it might as well be written in chinese or something. Can anyone provide a translation?
See the legend at the bottom of the graph. The light gray response curve is that of my "Standard," the second Minimus of this pair that I haven't done anything to/with, measured at the same time and under the same conditions. I include that as a reference for comparison of whatever change is under evaluation.

The red curve is the response of the test unit using the revised crossover circuit you propose. It flattens the response somewhat and reduces the exaggerated high-frequency response a bit. From a response perspective, then, it's an improvement, albeit not a particularly substantial one, and I suspect you'd have to A/B them directly for it to be audible. Looking back at the results with the eBay kit, I'd say this is a "better" mod, but the proof would only come with comparative listening.

The red curve is the acoustic sum of the green and blue, which are the woofer and tweeter on their respective filters, individually. The fact that the red curve is lower than the blue, the tweeter alone, indicates that what we hear, on axis, at least, is in part the result of interference between the drivers, which will likely be different from different listening angles. It'd take a far more complex measurement strategy to show all what is happening there, but generally, a stable design seeks to avoid relying on driver interference as an operative element in the overall performance; it's better if both drivers are not playing in the same frequency range, hence the term "crossover."

It's clear, however, that there is less of that with a filter now on the woofer as well as the tweeter, and the influence of the most probably nasty resonant peak in the woofer response at 7.5 kHz is now reduced, resulting in the apparent improved smoothness of the summed response in that region. How much that results in a "better" sounding speaker is, again, a subjective matter. There is still substantial overlap in the ranges of frequencies the two drivers are producing, which may be substantively reduced using one of the more sophisticated filters shown in several of the other mods studied here.

The violet curve is a gratuitous "what would happen IF" experiment; I inverted the tweeter polarity, and that shows the result. I can virtually guarantee that it's not an improvement, read "sucks."

Bottom line: Try your proposal, and see what you think. It's a simple expedient to potentially improving the Minimus 7 response a bit, but if you really want to "fix" them, it's not going to get there. When you do that, report your findings here, please, to expand the Minimus 7 knowledge base for the benefit of the forum.... :yes:
 
See the legend at the bottom of the graph. The light gray response curve is that of my "Standard," the second Minimus of this pair that I haven't done anything to/with. I include that as a reference for comparison of whatever change is under evaluation.

The red curve is the response of the test unit using the revised crossover circuit you propose. It flattens the response somewhat and reduces the exaggerated high-frequency response a bit. From a response perspective, then, it's an improvement, albeit not a particularly substantial one, and I suspect you'd have to A/B them directly for it to be audible. Looking back at the results with the eBay kit, I'd say this is a "better" mod, but the proof would be in comparative listening.

The red curve is the acoustic sum of the green and blue, which are the woofer and tweeter on their respective filters, individually. The fact that the red curve is lower than the blue, the tweeter alone, indicates that what we hear, on axis, at least, is in part the result of interference between the drivers, which will be different from different listening angles. It'd take a far more complex measurement strategy to show all what is happening there, but generally, a stable design seeks to avoid relying on interference as an operative element in the overall performance; it's better if both drivers are not playing in the same frequency range, hence the term "crossover."

It's clear, however, that there is less of that with a filter now on the woofer as well as the tweeter, and the influence of the very likely nasty resonant peak in the woofer response at 7.5 kHz is now reduced, resulting in the apparent improved smoothness of the response. How much that results in a "better" sounding speaker is, again, a subjective matter. There is still substantial overlap in the ranges of frequencies the two drivers are producing, which may be very much reduced using one of the more sophisticated filters shown in many of the other mods studied here.

Bottom line: Try it, and see what you think. It's a simple expedient to potentially improving the Minimus 7 response a bit, but if you really want to "fix" them, it's not going to get there. When you do that, report your findings here, please, for the benefit of the forum.... :yes:

Great explanation! It cleared alot up for me, I now need to go back thru this thread now that I understand things a little more.

Since I have the new/better caps, I think I will change them out this eve. I will probably see an improvement in just changing the caps alone, but am going to play with the inductor as well . Thanks, YD
 
The easiest solution is replace the input terminal plastic plate with a single board having all of the components on it and quality input binding posts, which some may want to do anyway.

Are you talking about another printed circuit board layout? WHEEWww, could be sweeeet! Go get em, Zilch!
 
Since I have the new/better caps, I think I will change them out this eve. I will probably see an improvement in just changing the caps alone, but am going to play with the inductor as well . Thanks, YD
You are very welcome, of course, and thank YOU for bringing forward another alternative mod for evaluation!

Minimus 7 is great good speakergeek fun. Note in my pic that I attached a red wire to the solder terminal after removing the stock capacitor, allowing me to switch the wiring around using small wire nuts. It doesn't matter if the inductor is in the (+) or (-) leg of the woofer, so you can do what you propose without unsoldering the inductor leads. As shown, that red wire would connect to woofer (-) to complete the circuit, after moving the woofer (+) to input (+). Also, it's easier to unscrew the input terminal block from the rear panel and work with it "outside the box...." :thmbsp:


Are you talking about another printed circuit board layout? WHEEWww, could be sweeeet! Go get em, Zilch!
Perhaps, Jack, we'll see how it develops.

If so, it's AK's reknowned PC layout artist we'll be calling on (read "begging") to help with that!

[See my sig pic, below, folks, for an example of Jack's excellent work.... :guitar: ]
 
Yeah, this really begs for a PC x-over.:D
You aren't gonna get away that easy, pal. :nono:

We're not doin' anything LIKE that here 'til you prove it's all good. :music:

For now, maybe do what I did and run the crossovers externally, using a small piece of fiberboard subbing for the input block and having holes allowing the driver leads to extend outside:

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That's foam gasket tape on it to make the seal.... :thmbsp:
 

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Innocently walk into my bldg dog beat tired and met by
1. PE box.
2. Your post.

Think I'll cut a section of perfboard and go internal. Or maybe go ur way.
Yeah, ur way.
 
Wired:

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Lucked out again:

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So?

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CRAP! Now I gotta build another one....
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Wow, that little I-core is cute!
I'm mocking it up, but won't be able to really do it 'till 2-moro.
Looks like you drilled in the coil.
:thmbsp:
 
Wow, that little I-core is cute! I'm mocking it up, but won't be able to really do it 'till 2-moro. Looks like you drilled in the coil.
Yup, it sits right between the two center bosses there, clear of the woofer magnet, and hopefully also clear of the port in that version.

I was anticipating a tough time gettin' the #4-40 Nylock nuts down in there, but with patience and a nut driver, that went smoothly. It's 1/2" #4 machine screws with flat washers in from the outside holding the I-Core. Not too tight, though; those mounting flanges are plastic, not metal, which is why I used Nylocks there.

There's double-sided 3M foam tape under the other components to hold them in place for assembly; I just left it there, even under the resistors, assuming they're not going to dissipate much in the way of heat. The two caps are kinda hanging on the edge to keep the screw holes clear, but once soldered, they are stable in those locations, and the tape will keep anything from buzzing.

The solder lug is #4, and it's a 1/2" #4-40 screw threaded nicely into the hole in that plastic boss, with #4 flat washers top and bottom. PM me if you need any of the hardware, and I'll pop it in the mail to you.

The tweeter leads and the one I-Core lead that connects to input (+) are running through the center of the air core to dress them out of the way.

Don't know if you can see it, but there's a black wire running from the (-) input to the junction of the 4.7 uF and the 40 Ohms, bottom right, connecting them to common. Put that wire in the input terminal's bottom hole before you install the resistors; it's kinda hard to snake it down between after, and I had to lift the 2-Ohm resistor to do it neatly, 'cause I didn't anticipate that.

I cleaned all the solder off the existing terminals with a solder sucker first, and removed the driver leads in the process. There's holes in the terminals under the existing solder that make connecting everything up a breeze.... :thmbsp:
 
That's a beautiful and "ever so tidy" installation, Zilch. A couple of questions from someone with no electronics background:

1. Is it necessary to insulate the solder lug from its mounting screw so current doesn't flow into the metal cabinet?
2. Does routing the wire through the "lil" inductor affect its performance?
3. Most importantly, how do they sound? Are they good enough to unseat the Indignias in ZilchLab?

Congrats on your HM finish in the AK MOTY poll.
 
1. Is it necessary to insulate the solder lug from its mounting screw so current doesn't flow into the metal cabinet?
Nope, it's a plastic boss I'm screwed into; there's no contact with the metal cabinet. :no:

2. Does routing the wire through the "lil" inductor affect its performance?
Not likely. I sure don't see anything in the measurements indicating such. Would running the wires outside it, but alongside affect it? :dunno:

3. Most importantly, how do they sound? Are they good enough to unseat the Indignias in ZilchLab?
There's virtually no bass below 120Hz in M7; they need subs. When I tried to coax more bass out of them, it was not good. They'll not unseat the Indignias full-range, for sure.

I'm gonna hook up an A/B switch to compare against its mate before I mod it today. Generally, I don't do "How's it sound;" we'll have to get that from their owner, who's more familiar with them, and Skywave, who's trying the mod. I'd say they're now more like what they have long pretended to be. ;)

Congrats on your HM finish in the AK MOTY poll.
Thank you, Robie. I'm controversial, some say radical, some say much worse, but I do put considerable effort into paying my dues here.... :thmbsp:
 
Thanks for your prompt and thorough reply, Zilch (not to mention your efforts in this and other threads). I also like your characterization of the mod:

I'd say they're more like what they have long pretended to be. ;)

I very much look forward to Skywave's assessment, too.

I can't wait to try this myself! It will be interesting to see how they fare against my similarly sized ADS 200Cs which are all about their wonderful midrange.
 
Cool!

RTA at 1 meter, on axis with tweeter. These speakers were not bought as a pair. One has original fiberglass, the other original poly. It seems to make no substantial difference in the low end. My measurement mic has a few dB hump at 10kHz, so the bump you see there, well, cut it down a little.

I have not compared my measurements to Zilch's or my earlier stock RTA yet.

They don't sound like M7s anymore. These things are good, LOL.
They're a quality mini speaker now.

These have a little bit of sibilance guessing roughly in the 4kHz region which may or may not bother the next guy. Bear in mind I've been listening to them a short time.

Great mod Zilch! Thanks!
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Skywave's original RTA measurements:

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We've certainly tamed them. :guitar:

These have a little bit of sibilance guessing roughly in the 4kHz region which may or may not bother the next guy. Bear in mind I've been listening to them a short time.
R2, 2 Ohms, is the HF attenuation resistor. Increase to 3 Ohms for better balance with your woofers, perhaps.

Yes, there's a 3.4 dB peak at 3.633 kHz, I believe it is. Pete suggests we may be able to improve that with an inductor value different from the stock ones we're using. A board version, should we choose to build one, might incorporate an update.

Whoa COOL. Very nice work Zilch. Thanks for verfiying Skywave.:thmbsp:
Thank you, Wired-dood. I'm certaily pleased to see it working so nicely for Skywave, too.... :yes:
 
This mod is well worth it if you want to rehab the little bas*&%@s.
Easy to do. Cheap. Obvious results.

I may bring the HF down a tad as Zilch indicates.

Quite a lot of fun to do.
 
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