Altec Model 19's Aquired Now!!

COOL! I'm glad it all worked out for you, I love the big Altec sound myself! I agree with leaving the electronics alone, just working on the finish and listening to them. After a bit you will know if anything is amiss or not. My slogan is if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Enjoy!

Congrats, those are sweet. They came at a sweet price. I think I'll hold out for a pair myself.:yes:

The Lifetime Journey begins

Hey Man I am so glad those Altecs found you.
You are beginning a Journey that will continue the rest of your life & I can tell you have already started,getting those boxes tight again & kick board replacement.
I swear the 19's are the only speaker I have ever owned that I always look forward to hearing every weekend & miss hearing again after a holiday & let me tell ya & man I went through a lot of speakers!!!
Don't get me wrong if I could afford it I would probably try a pair of the high end tricked up crossovers out there(keeping my old ones intact like someone else mentioned),but what really started opening my eyes were the slow gradual upgrades a local super good Tube tech did to my Eico ST-70 over time & I could actually hear the improvement each time,just like with the heavier gauge wire used internally.
Upgrading to a different type internal wire too is an excellent idea,especially while everything is torn down.Again this wire chit comes down to personal taste,but its true all this little chit adds up Bigtime with this speaker!.
For my horns I am using some plastic coated solid silver wire thats striped red & black,but have never been able to identify it.I received my components from a Prog Rock Bass Guitarist who was loosing his hearing & he just said always use this for the horns.He had owned the components since new in 75 & used em in refrigerator size boxes,till his wife kibosh d the Living Room Monsters.
Like Rock Stars of the Seventy's Altecs were built to Last!
Just something to try while things are all apart.Its a prick to get up into where the compression drivers are without popping out the horns,once everything is bolted into place.
Highs improved when I moved form Altec 806 drivers to the 802-8G's,whatever the ones with Tangerine phase plugs like in the above blow up pic are.With Altecs after awhile the numbers fade in your mind replaced by well recorded Music.
I don't usually play my Altecs at Concert Levels,but on occasion I have had a neighbor mention did you hear that concert downtown last night,lol!
Altecs are kinda like Hot Rods,ya gotta blow the carbon out of em once in awhile.
When we went to the newer high end caps in the phono stage of my tube amp I was hooked!
Altecs rule with Vinyl.They were designed when Vinyl was King & guess what Vinyl is back again!!!Funny it never left my place!
Got my Son & all his friends hooked.Its not uncommon to have Vinyl playing all day & into the evening in the long Winter nights here.That's when a tube amp really shines,the sound becomes liquid gold.
I mounted my crossovers to the rear of the inside removable panel for now but they may be mounted outboard very shortly in a small box.Ya never know,I may want to try different caps,etc down the road.Its much easier to 'tweak' when they are outboard.Some folks say crossovers mounted inside effects the sound??? I like convenience idea.
Try & find the hardest rubber casters you can,like for a mechanics HD tool chest,I believe it may make a difference.Find some used if you can.
I was going to go with spikes but needed to be able to slide mine around for domestics.
I went with the white speaker insulation,I am allergic to the itchy,scratchy stuff.
Remember room acoustics play big into damping so also go slow when damping.
In my opinion there is a fine line to find the right amount for your taste & room acoustics.
Damp where the air is moving,in other words damp the port side but ''NOT" the opposite cabinet side.I am pretty sure I damped the entire horn box.Just shone a flashlight up there,just check your box where it is damped now & see what they did,then replace.
Its easy,you know you got em dialed in when a Fender or Knickerbocker Bass,well sounds exactly like a Fender or Knickerbocker Bass,lol. With good solid state this will be how can I say this.EASY!
I found the least amount of damping you can get away with the better.
Oh,one thing I almost forgot to mention is get some rope caulk & damp the living snot out of the 811 horns.
Kills the ring.It works.I used the stuff from the local hardware store.There are plenty of threads on this somewhere on this site.There now,this outta keep ya busy & out of trouble in your spare time.
Figured its much easier for you to learn from my mistakes & do this internal stuff now,instead of opening & closing your boxes far too many times like I did experimenting & getting mine right.
Tonight's Concert: Dream Theater Score,20th Anniversary World Tour..Yeah Baby!!
Keep on Rocking in the free World
Altec Concert Kenny

Hey Kenny-

That was a good disrtation you offered there! Again more valuable experience and unique user information. I am seeing somewhat of a pattern emerge frim you larger Altec owners that I admire. The speakers themselves are a very good platform as they come and many tend to make their improvements around it! The more "advanced" experienced owners will delve into the xovers, horn drivers and cabinet reconstructions. It is an ownership evolution depending on the personality at large. I have re-read this whole thread sevel times, and the lead up thread to it as well. The ownership experience with these appears unique in its finality and function. It all rather reminds me of ones OLA first ownership experience but with more personal details!

Well the rebuild continues. It is now to hot to do anymore today, but I have good news and not as good news. The not as good news is that the large water stain on the one cabinet top was mostly corrected with the sanding and restaining of the cabinets. I opted to stain them to even out the refinishing process as these have large suface areas that give away imperfections easily with one look. The darker cabinets will not be as telling to the potted plant ring war it lost.

On a good note the two split seams on the cabinet top pulled together real well with pony clamps andf Gorrilla glue! I was worried about that but it did work out pretty well. I stipped off all the warping black vinyl plastic paper around the neck and horn face. Am debating if to paint that or put more vinyl- knowing it can warp is not appealing to me at the moment.

The cabinet base was also sanded and stained. It looks like it will come out fine and all the wood on it was in good shape. As mentioned ealier the crumbling toe boards (damn MDF there) will be replaced with solid wood. I am toying with the idea of fitting a terminal cup to the back of the toe board with HD binfing posts in them. Something more accessable than tipping them over to hook them up is looming large to me! Come on Altec, surely you must have thought through that a little better! As a final act of improvement and defiance I will put HD casters on them. Again somethig this large needs a momentem maker! Altec could have offered an after market caster kit for 1their larger speakers and made a killing!!!! Altec marketing please call me will you!

Thanks again folks
DC

Looking mighty fine my Friend! An excellent effort on your part!

Not bad,not bad at all,not too far to go & you will be enjoying some Live tunes!
I guarantee you those speakers are gonna blow your mind when you are all finished.
Of course, they will sound sooooooooooooooo much better after all the hard work & Texas sweat equity you have put into them so far & I think very soon you will finally be able to finally just sit back,Relax & admire their 'New Look' with a nice cool Texas sized drink & some great Music of your choice!
I am glad to hear you are not over doing it in the overwhelming heat.Take a well deserved break & think about what comes next,admiring your very hard work so far,you've earned it.
Shortly you are going to slowly realize why the hell didn't I buy a pair of these a long time ago!
Can't believe it,they are looking so much better than when we all first laid eyes on them,shows what a little elbow grease & a labor of love can do,its amazing what you can accomplish in a short period of time when you are motivated to do so.
Keep in mind you can't at all be responsible for the previous owner/owners lack of respect,& those have been around quite some time,they were made from from the late sixty's(68 was the first year I think?)into the 70's,so not to bad at all really at for over 30 years old!
Well its obvious isn't it,I mean the horn boxes are more than plenty big to become a perfect portable bar top,excellent for setting albums on,rolling joints,setting drinks,ashtrays on & believe me,more than a few of those speakers have rocked out many Dance parties since the sixty's,looks like those tops may have seen a few party's too with the usual drinks & potted plants knocked over,any characteristic burn stains,lol! No Worries!! Just AddsMore Character! I have come across several JBL speakers in my audio travels & every one of them had drink rings on them all.For some reason usually one speakers is always worse than the other too!
The main thing is the inside components have survived nicely.Phew they made it!!!
That's the Heart & Soul of all Altecs.
They were really the True "Heartbeat" of America!
Excellent,that you have managed to save them structurally,that's very,very important,& finished them off perfectly I might add,you have given them a new lease on life again & made them house/Living room worthy again.Remember its only we refinishes that notice the small mistakes,every body else sees only the big picture,so don't sweat the small stuff!
I really like how you addressed the stain problem with a unique solution,that idea will help others to decide on choices when research/restoring any old large cab speakers with wood veneer.I admire your Texas,Git er done style.
In my Life we found the casters to be a very necessary,& as it turned out a very convenient solution to our Family's needs,you can't even see them,they hide perfectly behind the kick board & still allow freedom of movement,a must in our rec room 7 if you ever move they roll along nicely,much easier than lifting them & carrying them!
I mean they are still pretty dam heavy speakers,think mine weighed in at just over 120 lbs with driver & horns mounted & my back ain't getting any younger!.I do not want to hump these suckers around every time I vacuum down there!
Yeah the original speaker wire hookups seemed to be in a strange place eh? Guess it kept wire length short,which saved money.
Why the hell did they mount them there?
Just goes to show you how much things have changed since then,in those days they were sold,it was off you went to the local hardware store,buy some lamp cord,grab your soldering iron & some solder-n-paste,tin both ends,hook em up & you were done,Let's Boogie Man,not driving around or sitting on the computer trying too figure out which out of 15,0000 different speaker wire company's choices were best,lol,that's a hassle Man,hook em up.Done....Lets put on some Music Man!
Now Where did I put my stash last night & who the hell scarfed my new Doors Album!
Oh just a little piece of Altec 19 History,the Doors albums were mixed down in the studio on Altec 19's...
So I figured appropriately the first record I put on mine was The Doors,L.A Women,Riders of the Storm & Light my Fire.
In your case maybe a little Stevie Ray Vaughn,Texas Flood or Love Struck Baby,is more in order!
Hmmmmmmmm,I think seeing as I'm on Holidays this week maybe Tonight's Concert outta be some sweet Stevie Ray Vaughn licks,Live at Austin City Limits...yeah that's it,haven't heard him in a long while.
Ain't nobody & I mean nobody played the Blues since like Little Stevie Ray Vaughn A True Honest Spirit R.I.P Stevie,your Music Lives on in my Heart.
Peace & harmonies Altec Concert Kenny
p.s On the recessed neck between the woofer & horn box I am going to go to a local sheet metal shop & get some shiny copper or hammered copper for around 3 sides,figured it would dress em up a little,look nice at night & would look better in black in my opinion,just an idea,I think you may be motivating me to finish my cabs!!!

See there Kenny- that is what I am talking about with you big Altec owners. You have a reverance for the music and even for the devices of accurate reproduction. I (again) also appreciate your admiration for the work I am putting into these. This is going to be the best last pair I plan to own, so they are getting my all. I will post more pics later today as I now have one cab (the worst) finish pretty well done.

As you pointed out it IS sweat equity too. I am a 57 year old half blind diabetic in fair (enough) health so I am able to put 4~5 hours in them a day before I wear out. Feels kinda good wjen I come inside and cool down and think about the very sounds/ music you described from the Doors, Stevie Ray, and many other I plan to enjoy with these. Had a guy over late last night to pick up an amp and here was pretty impressed by their new look. While the refinish will still show its "character" that should be a halmark of all 19's. I rather wish the character of mine was not that of a touched up plant ring! The fact that I am reviving an empire of sound and design pleases me most as the next stop for these was the scrap heap!

I have a few other modifications to make on these, nothing radical mind you, just common sence things to improve the sound. I will cover those in this thread later as it happens. After all I am making these MY ALtecs. Altec took them to a given production level, I will take them the rest of the way with modification I feel certain will work nicely on them.

Thanks again Kenny for the time taken to write such a great post. There seems to be a fair amount of them growing here which I am more than pleased to read and reflect on.
DC

One Done....well almost

Progresws report;

Have one cabinet finished and all put back together. Actually considering what I started with it looks much improved. The darker finish does effectively hide the worst of the plant ring stain on top. The darker color agrees with me fine as it does with the wifey as well. I put a solid wood toe plate with casters that look and function very well. The thin pink insulation was pulled from the lower half so the grand kids would not be tempted to reach in a pull it out. It was replaced with corregated foam batting from PE. It looks good and still should effectively do the job of sound deadening. The weenie wire connectors on bottom were replaced with those nice heavy nickle binding post types from PE.

The xover I tested and several of the caps were drifted 15~20% or better out of range- all the resistors were dead on as were the inductors. I opted for Dayton 5% replacements and will replace all the driver wiring with good heavy 12 gauge stranded wire. I did DeOxit the L-Pads.

I put a thick solid foam seal between the top half and where it meets up to the lower half. I will use the same seal tape for the drovers when I mount them. I plan to deaden the exterior of the horns with 1.5" foam all the way around to prevent "ring thru". Helps isolate the horn for better clairity. I have done this same trick on numerous Klipsch speakers and it works amazingly well!! I have the custom exterior horn foams ordered as well.

All in all the rebuild is going nicely. It is taking time but that was expected. I now have the other speaker slipt apart and will be ready for sanding and stainomg tomorrow! This is really giving me a workout in weight lifting!

Should have these blasting early next week!! I just got the C-2 for my Yammie B-2 today so I am real excited to hear that combo first through these!!
DC

They are looking really good.

We had a pair of Model 19s sell here on Aussie eBay just 2 days ago for $2050 Australian dollars($1729.50 US).That may seen a lot,but try shipping a decent pair of 19s from the US to Australia and you would probably see a large chunk of money disappear. :sigh:

They are also only the second pair I have seen for sale in Australia in over 6 years.Altecs are thin on the ground here. :tears:

I really considered them,but I have my project(as outlined previously)pretty much wrapped-up,I want to have compression drivers and horns covering more of the spectrum,than the Altec way of doing it.I'd like to have the Altec speaker which never existed.Not for that reason alone.I'm just saying that they never went down that path.

Heck,If someone,especially Altec,made a compression driver which really went down to 100Hz(Goto?)I'd consider it..... :scratch2:

If there were such a catagory of speaker called "Timeless Desiigns" surely the VOTT's, 19's, OLA's, DQ10's, Infinity QB'S, EPI 100's,EV Senty, KLH 20's and several other should qualify. These would be speakers that need only minor rework, such as a possible recap, refoam & maybe a refinish that have impressed, and still impress, the average to audiophile listeners.

The more I work on this speaker the better I understand and am impressed by its design genius. They kept it simple- a BIG 2 way with a suitable horn driver combination that has very good range at the extremes, mated with a woofer having the same sonic extreme capability. The xover is simple with just enough tonal flexability and components to keep the drivers opperating in a comfortable sonic range. The cabinet, while large, is well matched to compliment and add to the bass drivers output. Furthermore the drivers have ample output that using these with a large powerful amp is not a requirement. The style of the 19's is still quite contemporarty as well, I mean if large is a sonic requirement, then these look as good today as you could expect, at least to me they do.

I guess my point is those "timeless designs" are something to truely marvel at, as well as to listen to. When I study their build and intent it is easier to understand their philosophy and consiquent populairity. Tearing a model 19 apart and putting it back together is NOT an easy task, but it did have the reward of helping me understand just why it is the wonderful speaker it is today. Just to darn bad they chose to quite making it, I know I would not have!
DC

Nice work DC Congratulations, I got my replacement foam from Paul and Debbie Darst some years ago contact info. ddarst2@carolina.rr.com. They look Original.

Anthony

Hey Tranquil

Thanks for the ggod words. They are sounding exceptional!! I got hold of the Darst people already. I may or may not get the foams...he is down in his back and they will see what they can do.... was the responce I got after I had sent the money, so I guess we'll see! I suggested to them also making & selling the foam to put around the outside as a sound deadner- they passed on the idea! I may have to find a new foam maker here......
DC

They are also Mod 19 owners and enjoy the hobby like we do. I think they will try to get them to you. A member over at the Altec forum showed me how to dampen the horn with coats of sand and paint. I'm yet to try it but I will. I even have some pics of the process I'll try to find.
Anthony

The foam batting I used on the horns worked very well! I offered the idea to them and they passed on it, which is fine. I hope he gets to feeling better none the less, I have had back problems and that can be quite debilitating! I soke with Debbie via email and she seemed very nice.
DC

New Crossovers!

I just could not resist it- I had to build all new "Zilch" modded xovers! New L-pads. new everything. They came out looking pretty good and the sound sharpened them up nicely THESE made a audible, refined differance in their sound. If you have 19's this is a must!! Thanks Zilch, ya did good!
DC

Thank you, DC, it musta been quite a challenge getting them on the stock frames like that. You are shaming me into completing my pair!

[I see my schematic in the background there, heh.... :thmbsp: ]

Hey Zilch-

I have to say a direct "Thankyou" for an excellent design! They now sound audibly better, more crisp than before. I don;t know where you get you xover design ques from but keep it up! I am a real fan and follower. My other favorite one was the Minimus 7 you designed.
That being said now do yourself a favor and finish up those 19's- that's a damn fine speaker now!!
DC

Dont want to lose this one again.

Wow congratulations! I have always loved the looks of these speakers, I remember seeing them back in the day!

Congrats ! They are a Great Sounding Speaker !! I'm sure you will enjoy them for many,many years. :yes:










Regards ~ AB

This is a rather "aged" thread as of now. It is a still good example of what some luck and hard work will get you!

Having learned many great lesson from the Altec 19, they have led me to where I am today with my custom built "K-9's" (see avatar). They are my Altec 19 replacements. They have some refinement lesson learned from the 19's- but not by much. You cannot beat those 416 woofers for purity of midrange sound. I think I like my QSC waveguides and Radian 475pb drivers over the 811's and their lower cab placement. I did use the Z19 networks with great success once again. I like my taller modified Kappa 9 look over the dated squated Altec look. For the while I had used the Altecs I completely enjoyed them and still do.

Guess the best part for me is that they will be going to a good friend out in California when he can make the time to pick them up~ or a Pony Express thing can happen to get them out there for him.

They are really great speakers. I think they should be something everybody should get to listen to at least once in their life before buying anthing else.
DC