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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

fastbike said:
Do we think the DC300 would still be a bear if the cabs were bigger? Say at least 2.5 to 3 cu. ft.?
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I am quite pleased with the bass response I'm getting with DC300 in the ported PE Trap cab, actually; it can only improve in the larger alignment Gordon suggests.

The present issue derives from a response anomaly that will not change with increased box volume. Though I've only worked with one sample thus far, the fact that it appears in the factory curve leads me to doubt it'll be different with another one, though I'll certainly pursue that.

You can see what's happening here; we've got it within +/- 2.5 dB -- perfectly acceptable and sounding good by most standards -- but there's opportunity apparent for potentially making it even better and simpler, which temptation I cannot resist.... :tongue:
 
If you're considering buying those from someone with 'golf' in the name, PM me first.
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That's not the guy. I heard JBL VRX932LAP is a very clean sound system. So, I was thinking about using 2408j on my ewaves and see what happens. I can get a couple of used ones for cheap. But I'll pass. But they would screw right in to my ewaves. The spec says it covers 1k-20k.

Thanks though.
 
Zilch said:
You can see what's happening here; we've got it within +/- 2.5 dB -- perfectly acceptable and sounding good by most standards -- but there's opportunity apparent for potentially making it even better and simpler, which temptation I cannot resist.... :tongue:
Click to expand...

We all appreciate and support you with this sickness......may they never find a cure.:D

Russellc
 
Well I have just ordered the parts for what I hope to be my best pair of speakers yet; B&C DE250 drivers on QSC waveguides with JBL LE14A's.

I'm a wee bit excited:yes::D
 
I'm trying to bi-amping follows

300B, LF, crossover 1200Hz Zilchlab
2A3, HF Selenium dt220 you zilch lab XO 3000Hz

What changes should I make in the crossover, thanks
 
Your crossover boards are set up for biamping without an active electronic crossover. All you need is a second pair of input terminals:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2636636#post2636636

Unbolt the pair on the boards, separate the wire lugs already installed, connect to the new terminals, and reinstall the orignials to the boards. Your new terminals will connect to your low-frequency amp outputs, and the originals to your high-frequency amp outputs.

Read the Application Note regarding biamping with tube amplifiers driving the high frequency section:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2416284#post2416284
 
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DE250/QSC/DC300/PE Trap Kit Cab

Round #3:

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Bonus speakergeek fun -- open the three rounds of vertical polar maps in separate tabs and click among them:

Round #1, 12/10/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184139&d=1260602258

Round #2, 12/11/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184141&d=1260602258

Round #3, 12/13/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184579&d=1260770037

Augerpro's time-aligned system polars with active XO here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17187889#post17187889
 

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It's looking better with the crossover point moved back up a bit (is it 1.743kHz in Round 3?) and the summation is smoother. I am wondering what you are doing Zobel-wise; or maybe you implemented the tank filter? And what caused the crossover summation point to shift?

I think the down and up in the x-o region is more consistent in Round 3. Has got to be a good sign and suggests the slopes are meshing better, I'd say.

DC300 points up about the same as JBL 123A-1 in cursory view....

I guess I am a speaker geek 'cause I was flipping between tabs before you edited your post...LOL.
 
skywave-rider said:
It's looking better with the crossover point moved back up a bit (is it 1.743kHz in Round 3?) and the summation is smoother. I am wondering what you are doing Zobel-wise; or maybe you implemented the tank filter? And what caused the crossover summation point to shift?

I think the down and up in the x-o region is more consistent in Round 3. Has got to be a good sign and suggests the slopes are meshing better, I'd say.
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No Zobel, per se, but C2 is now a conjugate, and there's a tank filter on the output. In Round #2, C2 was a notch filter.

Let's look at the XOs the same way:

Round #1, 12/10/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184138&d=1260602258

Round #2, 12/11/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184140&d=1260602258

Round #3, 12/13/09: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=184578&d=1260770037

The glitches are still there, but the LF rolloff gets smoother with each iteration, and minimum phase through the crossover region becomes more linear. I may be able to get that better, but I'm now going to swap drivers of the same type to see if they are consistent.... :yes:
 
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Zilch said:
No Zobel, per se, but C2 is now a conjugate, and there's a tank filter on the output. In Round #2, C2 was a notch filter......
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So in Round 3 you've added an inductor in series with C2?
:dunno:

Zilch said:
The glitches are still there, but the LF rolloff gets smoother with each iteration, and minimum phase through the crossover region becomes more linear. I may be able to get that better, but I'm now going to swap drivers of the same type to see if they are consistent.... :yes:
Click to expand...

Yes, that's clear! What do you attribute the more linear minimum phase to? I assume this is attributable to the smoother LF slope and maybe the crossover point shift. Let's hope the drivers are consistent.
:thmbsp:
 
skywave-rider said:
So in Round 3 you've added an inductor in series with C2?
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No. It's just a damping resistor in series there now; looks like a Zobel; call it that, maybe.

Round #2 had an inductor and a resistor in series with C2, making it an LCR notch filter, the performance of which told me I was on track to smoothing out the rolloff.... :yes:
 
Hey Zilch (or anyone else) I'm going to take my Barzilay cabs and remove the Bozaks and rebuild them... I'm thinking about the BMS drivers like a 4550 or 4555, or something pretty high end up top..

I was talking to Zilch about the LE14A and have been looking around at the LE14H-3 also... I know these are great drivers, but was wondering if there is something new for sale that would give these drivers a run for their money?
 
I'm not so worried about the econo part.. I'm more after something that will shame my JBL's... and as much as I keep hearing people rave about these waves..

I figure if I can go all out on them, then I could have a pair of speakers that will pretty much surpass anything I can buy, built in cabs that my wife really likes a lot... She doesn't want me to sell my Bozaks, but lets see what happens if I shoot her a price way up there to build something special in them.

The BMS drivers aren't so cheap either at a little over $300 a pair.. man.. we're talking around $900 in drivers here... :scratch2: Is it worth that.. however, I got more than that in my Altecs..
 
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