Good place that is reasonable to rebuild old Pioneer receivers

sorry, just checked in.

I don't know anything about rebuilding DYI. But I do know that The Old Vintage Audio Shoppe on 16th around 4th does repair work. I get the sense they are pricey, but in the long run, you might save some hassles. It's also interesting to pop in and just see what they have.

I was also directed to a local electronics shop called VOSS Electronics by a fellow vintage afficianado. It's off Macleod around 42nd. The old dude in there will have most of the parts you want, if you do decide to DIY, but he also does repair work. I bought my power lights there recently. He's hard of hearing, so speak up!

Thanks Whitecastle. So just so I'm clear you're saying that on 16th and 4th street NE or NW? Do you recall the name on it? Also what about the Voss Electronics guy does he sell caps and amplifier parts?

Thanks!

Literally: The Old Retro Store - www.thatoldretrostore.com

VOSS: I think he carrys that kind if stuff. But you're going to have know exactly what you want.

bump - I haven't forgotten about the SX-3800 parts list - I'm fighting to get to it.

Here is my recap list, minus the tuner, let me know if you need that list. There are couple that I'm not sure about, so I put a question mark next to them and left the replacement part area empty. The two C21's in the EQ list is the way it was listed in the manual, not sure if that is an error or not, so I put it in. The 220uF 100v UPW's and UHE's are out of stock, but the UPW is to be shipped 2/03/2011, so I put that one in. Also, the UPW 1uF 50v are out of stock as well, and UHE does not go that small, so I put UKL's in place of them.

EQ Assembly (AWM-227)

AWM-227: C1: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
AWM-227: C2: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
AWM-227: C3: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
AWM-227: C4: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
AWM-227: C9: 470uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
AWM-227: C10: 470uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
AWM-227: C21: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
AWM-227: C21: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
AWM-227: C22: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
AWM-227: C23: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
AWM-227: C24: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v

Tone Control Assembly (GWG-141)

GWG-141: C1: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
GWG-141: C2: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
GWG-141: C7: 100uF 10v CEA: 647-UPW1A101MDD6 100uF 10v
GWG-141: C8: 100uF 10v CEA: 647-UPW1A101MDD6 100uF 10v
GWG-141: C13: 47uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uF 35v
GWG-141: C14: 47uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47uF 35v
GWG-141: C15: .22uF 50v CEANL: 667-ECQ-V1H224JL2 .22uF 50v
GWG-141: C16: .22uF 50v CEANL: 667-ECQ-V1H224JL2 .22uF 50v
GWG-141: C17: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
GWG-141: C18: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
GWG-141: C21: .33uF 50v CWANL: 667-ECQ-V1H334JL .33uF 50v
GWG-141: C22: .33uF 50v CWANL: 667-ECQ-V1H334JL .33uF 50v
GWG-141: C25: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
GWG-141: C26: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
GWG-141: C27: 10uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uF 50v
GWG-141: C28: 10uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uF 50v
GWG-141: C29: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWG-141: C30: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWG-141: C31: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWG-141: C32: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWG-141: C33: 10uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uF 50v
GWG-141: C34: 10uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10uF 50v

Power Amp Assembly (GWH-039)

GWH-039: C101: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
GWH-039: C102: 4.7uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1J4R7MDD 4.7uF 63v
GWH-039: C125: .22uF 50v CEANP: 667-ECQ-V1H224JL2 .22uF 50v
GWH-039: C126: .22uF 50v CEANP: 667-ECQ-V1H224JL2 .22uF 50v
GWH-039: C133: 470uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
GWH-039: C134: 100uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V101MPD 100uF 35v

Power Supply Assembly (GWR-122)

GWR-122: C202: 220uF 80v CEA: 647-UPW2A221MHD 220uF 100v
GWR-122: C203: 220uF 80v CEA: 647-UPW2A221MHD 220uF 100v
GWR-122: C206: 10uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H100MDD 10uF 50v
GWR-122: C207: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWR-122: C208: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWR-122: C209: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWR-122: C210: 47uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H470MED 47uF 50v
GWR-122: C213: 470uF 16v CEA: 647-UPW1C471MPD6 470uF 16v
GWR-122: C214: 470uF 16v CEA: 647-UPW1C471MPD6 470uF 16v
GWR-122: C215: 1000uF 35v CEA: 647-UPW1V102MHD 1000uF 35v
GWR-122: C216: 100uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V101MPD 100uF 35v
GWR-122: C217: 220uF 16v CEA: 647-UPW1E221MPD 220uF 25v
GWR-122: C218: 47uF 10v CEA: 647-UPW1C470MDD 47uF 16v
GWR-122: C219: 470uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
GWR-122: C223: 2.2uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H2R2MDD 2.2uF 50v
GWR-122: C227: 10uF 50v CEA: 647-UPW1H100MDD 10uF 50v

FL Indicator Assembly (AWV-009)

AWV-009: C1: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C2: 1uF 50v CEANL: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C3: .47uF 50v CEA: 667-ECQ-V1H474JLW .47uF 50v
AWV-009: C10: 100uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V101MPD 100uF 35v
AWV-009: C16: 470uF 10v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
AWV-009: C28: 470uF 10v CEA: 647-UPW1A471MPD 470uF 10v
AWV-009: C31: 220uF 16v CEA: 647-UPW1E221MPD 220uF 25v
AWV-009: C33: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C34: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C35: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C36: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C37: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C38: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWV-009: C39: 1uF 50v CEA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v

BOM list:

647-UKL1H010KDDANA | 13
647-UPW1E221MPD | 2
647-UPW1A471MPD | 6
647-UPW1V101MPD | 3
667-ECQ-V1H474JLW | 1
647-UPW1H100MDD | 2
647-UPW1H2R2MDD | 1
647-UPW1C470MDD | 1
647-UPW1V102MHD | 1
647-UPW1C471MPD6 | 2
647-UPW1H470MED | 14
647-UPW2A221MHD | 2
647-UKL1J4R7MDD | 8
647-UKL1H100KDDANA | 4
667-ECQ-V1H224JL2 | 4
647-UPW1V470MED1TD | 2
647-UPW1A101MDD6 | 2
667-ECQ-V1H334JL | 2

All but the 220uF 100v UPW's were comfirmed to be in stock at the time of posting.

??????

Stevescivic said:

Is there a place or person in Canada that is competent enough to properly restore/rebuild both my Pioneer SX3800 from 1981 and my Pioneer VSX-9900S from 1991?

Both units are working flawlessly including the old SX 3800. I want to be proactive in rebuilding the units but don't know where to find a good tech that actually knows what they're doing.

I'm in Calgary so local would be ideal if possible.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Several places in town here:Autek Labs,Columbus TV/Audio and Soundlite...:thmbsp:

EXCELLENT JOB MATT!!! Thank You, That's a weight off my shoulders!!

re:
GWG-141: C21: .33uF 50v CWANL?:
GWG-141: C22: .33uF 50v CWANL?:

use ECQ's.... stacked film polys...

edit: check the cap spacing on the boards when upping voltage on power caps, I got bit on the sx-3900 where two caps were close together and I had fit problems, maybe related to being out of tall skinny versions of that cap.

for example on the 3900 p.s i had to use:
661-EKZE800ELL221MK2
UCC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
220UF 80V
to get a fit side by side.

You're very welcome! I just edited in the .33uF caps to the main list and the BOM, so it is complete.

killer Mattsd!

mtf, looks like its been all looked after

Thanks for that list. I can now go ahead and place my order and then go and start rebuilding. The timing couldn't have come better b/c when I was listening to my sx tonight the highs are starting to crackle/cut out and do some weird things.

I guess I can now confidently go and just cut and past mattsd's BOM into mouser and have at it?

Thanks to everyone for helping me out.

mattsd I might as well get the tuner list from you too since I'm already in there taking things apart that its best to just do it all at once and not have to worry about it for another 20 years.

Thanks!

silly question but what about those 2 12, 000 uf caps on the power supply? Don't those typically need to be replaced too?

Stevescivic said:

mattsd I might as well get the tuner list from you too since I'm already in there taking things apart that its best to just do it all at once and not have to worry about it for another 20 years.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Before you muck about IN the tuner, it would behoove you to find and pre-arrange your tuner alignment with someone, to be sure they are willing to take on the job that the 3800's circuits require after you change out the electrolytic caps....

or you could do just the "safe" ones, AFTER I figure that out....

these are the tuner electrolytics

gwe-133 tuner

gwe-133 c103 ceanl r22m 50 0.22uf 50v
gwe-133 c65 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c66 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c70 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c71 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c63 ceanl 2r2m 50 2.2uf 50v
gwe-133 c64 ceanl 2r2m 50 2.2uf 50v
gwe-133 c72 cea 010m 50L 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c79 cea 3r3m 50L 3.3uf 50v
gwe-133 c98 cea 3r3m 50L 3.3uf 50v
gwe-133 c97 cea 4r7m 50L 4.7uf 50v
gwe-133 c33 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c43 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c69 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c73 cea 220m 25L 22uf 50v
gwe-133 c80 cea 470m 10L 47uf 10v
gwe-133 c30 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c76 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c77 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c36 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c83 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c84 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c12 cea 221m 16L 220uf 16v
gwe-133 c54 cea 331m 10L 330uf 10v
gwe-133 c51 cea 471m 16L 470uf 16v
gwe-133 c85 cea 471m 16L 470uf 16v
gwe-133 c3 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v
gwe-133 c4 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v
gwe-133 c78 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v

thanks mtf. I have read on numerous occasions on getting the tuner realigned so I've considered that. Does changing out the caps drastically affect the tuner alignment or is it because it I've physically shifted the board around and therefore that action screws up the alignment?

If you advise against doing the tuner then I guess I could always forgo doing it if the chances of it failing is rather low.

Thanks,

MTF, I replied so quickly this morning not realizing the information provided is the raw list of electrolytics and not the mouser.com BOM.

In that list I sent you I'm pretty sure I got all the appropriate caps from mouser.com so I would assume that I can just go by my original list? I went through it twice and I'm quite sure I have everything that I need for the tuner. I simply chose all "audio grade" caps for my list.

Just for the sake of my own understanding how does one know what physical dimension to choose for a cap?

When I was picking my parts at mouser.com they often list multiple caps of the same value but with differing physical dimensions. Short of actually measuring each old cap I gather that whatever I pick from mouser.com is really just a hit and miss thing as far as physical cap size goes?


Thanks again to all for your help!

Stevescivic said:

MTF, I replied so quickly this morning not realizing the information provided is the raw list of electrolytics and not the mouser.com BOM.

In that list I sent you I'm pretty sure I got all the appropriate caps from mouser.com so I would assume that I can just go by my original list? I went through it twice and I'm quite sure I have everything that I need for the tuner. I simply chose all "audio grade" caps for my list.

Just for the sake of my own understanding how does one know what physical dimension to choose for a cap?

When I was picking my parts at mouser.com they often list multiple caps of the same value but with differing physical dimensions. Short of actually measuring each old cap I gather that whatever I pick from mouser.com is really just a hit and miss thing as far as physical cap size goes?


Thanks again to all for your help!

Click to expand...

I have not evaluated your original list. I saw usl, uvy, usp and just plain stopped and closed the spreadsheet.

YOU can compare it to the list generated by mattsd - I stand behind matt's.

Physical dimensions are USUALLY NOT a factor, since modern replacements are invariably smaller than the originals - 30 years HAS resulted in improvements.

SOMETIMES when changing voltages - going to a higher voltage there is a jump in size - can result in rare cases in clearance problems - I have only run into that on ONE Pioneer model in my years and years of experience.

Audio grade can be snake oil. Then IF there is something special about those caps, than the REST of the circuit has to be up to that level of performance. My lists are chosen for electronic compatibility and longevity. The differences are deeper than you think - or why would there be SO many DIFFERENT type variations from the same manufacturer? When you looked, there were FAR more significant variations in the capacitors than just size. Just my jump down to 85 degree c caps from 105 degree c caps was made reluctantly, but the vital characteristic I needed just wasn't available in a higher temperature cap.

Then there are the trade offs, will that audio cap's special characteristic be audible considering that in that position a lower leakage cap is required for low noise performance? What's leakage, esr, dielectric adsorption, tan theta etc... It's called a degree in electrical engineering....

I have expended considerable skull sweat (and some experimentation) to come up with the types and variations I recommend for the Pioneer equipment, evaluating your wide ranging cap selections would call for a MASSIVE investment of time I do not wish to expend that way - I DO have an 18 month PLUS waiting list of people wanting me to work on their equipment.

As for doing the tuner - my advice stands - FIND someone willing to do the alignment, BEFORE affecting the alignment - Alignments are usually about 80 bucks and up, and then there's shipping TO the aligner if you are not lucky enough to find someone who actually STILL does alignments and has the specialized equipment, no less the experience to take on that type of tuner locally.

OR

wait for me to evaluate which caps can be changed without affecting the alignment and get the parts list finished for them. The task is more complex than just choosing caps, I have to evaluate function for each as well. The sx-3800 IS a more complex tuner than a sx-950, sx-838 or old school sx-828 or earlier...

You see, tuner alignments on vintage equipment is becoming a lost art - nowadays manufacturers buy a little silver box with an antenna connector that they wire into their circuit board - and that's for FM, Over the air and cable Digital TV and HD radio - the latter two then output a data stream that the rest of the unit handles digitally. It goes bad, they replace the little silver box, and usually toss the old one in the trash.

Nowadays?? Analog TV's from 15 years ago were done like that....

mtf that feedback definitely helps a lot. I wasn't overly confident when I did my initial list so I'm glad that you and others have been able to steer me in the right direction. As far as the tuner goes I was curious as to why some rebuilders don't touch the tuner. Your explanation is excellent.

Board level repairs and manual tuning work is most definitely a dying art and there isn't enough competent repair guys around anymore to save all sorts of equipment that just needed a bit of TLC.

As far as me tackling the tuner I think me and probably anyone else wanting to tackle their SX-3800's tuners will wait for you to share your findings.

As always, your help and contributions to our projects and this forum is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

wrong thread

Tuner BOM

In an effort to not be just a free loader here is what I put together for a Mouser BOM for the tuner capacitors.

The parts list from Mark's earlier post:

gwe-133 tuner

gwe-133 c103 ceanl r22m 50 0.22uf 50v
gwe-133 c65 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c66 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c70 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c71 ceanl 010m 50 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c63 ceanl 2r2m 50 2.2uf 50v
gwe-133 c64 ceanl 2r2m 50 2.2uf 50v
gwe-133 c72 cea 010m 50L 1uf 50v
gwe-133 c79 cea 3r3m 50L 3.3uf 50v
gwe-133 c98 cea 3r3m 50L 3.3uf 50v
gwe-133 c97 cea 4r7m 50L 4.7uf 50v
gwe-133 c33 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c43 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c69 cea 100m 50L 10uf 50v
gwe-133 c73 cea 220m 25L 22uf 50v
gwe-133 c80 cea 470m 10L 47uf 10v
gwe-133 c30 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c76 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c77 cea 101m 10L 100uf 10v
gwe-133 c36 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c83 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c84 cea 101m 25L 100uf 25v
gwe-133 c12 cea 221m 16L 220uf 16v
gwe-133 c54 cea 331m 10L 330uf 10v
gwe-133 c51 cea 471m 16L 470uf 16v
gwe-133 c85 cea 471m 16L 470uf 16v
gwe-133 c3 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v
gwe-133 c4 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v
gwe-133 c78 cea 470m 25L 47uf 25v

___________
BOM

667-ECQ-V1H224JL2|1
667-ECQ-V1H105JL5|5
667-ECQ-V1H225JL|2
647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA|2
647-UPW1H100MDD|3
647-UBT1H4R7MPD|1
647-UPW1H220MDD|1
647-UPW1A470MDD6|1
647-UHD1A101MDD|3 or
667-EEU-FM1A101|3
647-UHD1E101MED|3
647-UPW1C221MPD|1
647-UHV1A331MED|1
647-UPW1C471MPD|2
647-UPM1E470MED|3

The ECQs are a guess given my reading of the excellent tuning fork articles...let me know if they are inappropriate for a tuner section.

Also let me know if any of the others should be replaced as well.

Thanks to all who make this such a great site!

If it aint broke

Hi,
Did I read your initial post correctly, that these units were working fine, if so why mess with something that does not need it, go find some junked stuff and refurbish that.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

gummy said:

Hi,
Did I read your initial post correctly, that these units were working fine, if so why mess with something that does not need it, go find some junked stuff and refurbish that.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Click to expand...