• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

junesony said:
Hello, I'm a newbie here, but i have tried to build and ewave of sorts with locally available (Manila,Philippines) driver and surprisingly they did sound good. Now i would like to try the Selenium but they are not available here, instead there is PAudio available. What model could be a possible candidate otherwise using PAudio drivers,if any? Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't know much about the Paudio drivers but if you get the specs from the Selenium and the Paudio it would be a matter of comparing the two and find something in the Paudio that matches. Or just email Paudio and ask which of there drivers come close.

junesony said:
I would also like to know where i can find the schematic of the new charged-coupled crossover that your talking about here?
Click to expand...

We were just talking about this within the last 30 days. Just page back for a bit and I'm sure you'll find it.

Do you have pix of your eWaves?
 
djnagle said:
I don't know much about the Paudio drivers but if you get the specs from the Selenium and the Paudio it would be a matter of comparing the two and find something in the Paudio that matches. Or just email Paudio and ask which of there drivers come close.



We were just talking about this within the last 30 days. Just page back for a bit and I'm sure you'll find it.

Do you have pix of your eWaves?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your good advise djnagle, btw i just seen someone selling b&c de250 here in manila. but i guess i will pass first as the price is just too steep for me at the moment.
I have some pix but don't know how to upload yet...:scratch2:
 
4343 said:
It's linked on the first page of this thread, under Project Summary, under Variants. Here's a direct link:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101428&d=1217293889

Well worth it IMHO.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the guidance, 4343, i was able to find this link too last night: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1993-k2-s5500/page11.jpg

so i embarked to make one last night, with some no name caps, they sounded not really that musical to me, but quite clear... then today i changed them with a couple of aerovox 10uf/250volt ones... they are in my opinion more musical now than the ones used last night.

PS: so sorry to hear the passing away of Zilch, my condolence to his family. he will be missed very much.
 
Last edited:
junesony said:
Thank you for the guidance, 4343, i was able to find this link too last night: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1993-k2-s5500/page11.jpg

so i embarked to make one last night, with some no name caps, they sounded not really that musical to me, but quite clear... then today i changed them with a couple of aerovox 10uf/250volt ones... they are in my opinion more musical now than the ones used last night.
...
Click to expand...

There are basically two ways that charge coupling gets used, one is to make cheaper electrolytic caps sound good, which can really lower the cost in a sub crossover or anywhere large values are needed. (Im looking at the pair of 300mFs in my passive sub, two pair of 600mF caps or eight 300mFs to make it C-C! Not something I could afford in film...)

The other of course is to make good sounding caps sound even better by eliminating the distortions mentioned in that link.

It does take a while for the dielectric to "form up" (the Pre-Squeezing mentioned in your link) after the battery voltage is applied. I noticed that my 4412A's were pretty dry for an hour or two after changing the crossovers to charge-coupled. Previously I noticed my L-110's sounding odd for a few hours just from replacing the caps with new ones, so I did not put the batteries in till that change had taken place. (Both of these speakers are using AXON caps.)
So putting caps in and listening for a while is something I would recommend in general. You may find that the generic caps are better sounding after a while. Or not, YMMV. But do listen for awhile before putting the voltage on them, the change can be startling once they are charged up. Just removing the battery will not immediately restore them to the state prior to being charged, you would need to short each cap to drain them, or so I've heard, I've not tried that as I've never wanted to go back!
 
junesony said:
Thank you for your good advise djnagle, btw i just seen someone selling b&c de250 here in manila. but i guess i will pass first as the price is just too steep for me at the moment.
I have some pix but don't know how to upload yet...:scratch2:
Click to expand...

DE250 _IS_ pretty nice...:yes: Hearing them sent me on a quest to do everything possible to improve the Seleniums I have. See thread on improving the 220Ti:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=349726

To attach pics as thumbnails:
Once you have opened a Reply or Edit window, scroll down to where it says Manage Attachments. Pressing that button will open a small window that will allow you to Browse for your pic. Once you've selected it, press Upload, then you can finish by pressing Submit Reply (or Save if you're editing a post).

Inserting inline pics:
Someone else will have to explain that.:tears:
 
jhoyt said:
I ordered the caps for the CC crossover today, gonna be interesting how this all goes together. I am looking forward to the results! :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

If its on the Selenium 220Ti, I think you will be pleased. I recall initial "fizziness" which quickly settled in with a remarkable smoothness, relatively saying, it isnt a jaw dropper, but very pleasant...more than subtle, but not earth shattering. I think it serves the 220ti well.....

Russellc
 
A while back I had mentioned doing the econowave mod for my Klipsch KG 4.2 speakers.
At the time I was told that I should modify the crossover to work better with the Selenium D220Ti
I will be using the 8 ohm CD. I am trying to find some of the larger QSC wave guides that some people on here have been using. If I can't should I just get the 3 bolt version of the D220 and just keep my tractrix horns because they are the same height and only 2" narrower than the JBL/Dayton wave guides.

I was told by Klipsch tech support that the factory crossover point is at 1600 Hz, they have not got back to me yet with what DB the roll off is or what the parameters for the woofer section is.

Here is a photo of the stock crossover.

kg42xo.jpg


The capacitors are labeled:

The Green one:
KSC
33 MFD
100 VDC
+- 10%

The little poly switch:
(The print is very tiny so I think it says)
.70

The blue one:

KSC
2.5K
100 V

The Yellow one:

KSC
3.0K
100 V

The white Resistors on the side say:

Top one:
KSC
12 ohm 5W

The bottom one:
KSC
2 Ohm 5W

crossovers are the one area were my knowledge is weak, so I don't know what parts go to which speaker.

I would like to use capacitors that improve overall SQ of the speakers.
I would also like to remove the parts from the circuit board and attach them directly to each other on a wooden board.

I am on a very tight budget so I don't want to spend more than $25/crossover

Which is the same price as the dayton 2 way crossovers on parts express.
 
Last edited:
Magnavox Ewave

First and foremost, my respects to Zilch, his family and friends.

I finally finished my Econo-Waves. I had a few candidates, but finally decided on a pair of Magnavox S-8765, other candidates being a pair of Advent 4002 and RS Optimus Model 5. The original Magnavox was a sealed 2-way with a 12” Eminence woofer and horn HF. The horn functioned adequately, but left lots of room for improvement and became my E-wave choice.

I built Standard E-Wave crossovers: <95db, 8ohm, although with these woofers I should've used the >95db configuration.
ewave1.jpg


I mounted the crossovers, D220ti and PH612 on a board and tested with both the Magnavox and Optimus 5. I perferred the Magnavox over the Optimus.
ewave2-1.jpg
ewave3.jpg


I used some left over B-Quiet sound deadening to reduce horn and woofer basket resonance. Before applying, the horn had a distinct vibration when tapped and the woofer basket rang like a bell. After application, both sounded like a piece of solid hardwood. Did it make a difference? I really can’t say.
ewave4.jpg


Cabinet was pretty well built with 1” baffle. I added a single brace.
ewave5.jpg


Still need to apply some finishing touches. My local hardware store didn’t have any black button head wood screws so I used some silver ones with plans to paint. I kind of like the industrial look though.
ewave6.jpg


I built some stands today and will stain them to match speaker veener.
ewave7.jpg


After staining the stands and running with a little tube/SS hybrid.

Ewave9.jpg


These babies sound great and a nice improvement over the original configuration. Sound is big, dynamic and just plain fun to listen to. Well worth the effort and just what I needed to get my feet wet in the DIY realm.

Thanks to Zilch and all Econowave contributors.

ewave8.jpg
 
Last edited:
junesony said:
Hello, I'm a newbie here, but i have tried to build and ewave of sorts with locally available (Manila,Philippines) driver and surprisingly they did sound good. Now i would like to try the Selenium but they are not available here, instead there is PAudio available. What model could be a possible candidate otherwise using PAudio drivers,if any? Thanks
Click to expand...

PAudio BMD440 is pretty similar to Selenium D220Ti. We use both of them a lot, here at work. The BMD440 is used in many Mackie and Behringer (and other) speakers, so we get to see a lot of them.

I'd be surprised if they didn't work pretty well. Efficiency is similar to the D220Ti, as well as the shape of the response curve.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Nice work Xtinc! Got to love bringing new life to an old speaker.

Hint - stick the screws in a hunk of cardboard and spray the heads with black paint.
 
greenmark59 said:
Or buy a black Sharpie marker with a large point and color over the heads. Works great :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

I tried that Green, and it was just too thin coverage. So then I cleaned them off and stuck them in cardboard and spray painted them high gloss black and they look much better.
 
Xtinc , very nice looking work , I really like the nice work on the crossover and the picture helps me alot.I'm about to try ( I emphasize "try") to ewave a pair of JBL HLS 8 cabinets into EWave mini 8's.I'm a Noob from noobvillie noobilvania as far as building a croosover from scratch goes so pictures help :thmbsp: .I was hoping to use the same setup as you did on mine but had a quick question.On the L-pad section I'm a little confused ,If somebody here with more experience than me (anybody ) could look at the pic I'm posting and confirm if I have everthing labled right.Thank you all for any help.
 

Attachments

  • crossover.jpg
    crossover.jpg
    70 KB · Views: 76
voodoocrue said:
here is the pic I should have posted I'm not sure I had any of the above posted pic right
Click to expand...

ewave1-1.jpg


Thanks for the compliments.

Note: The compression driver + (HF+) can be run directly from LP2. I placed a jumper point on the board on my first crossover, but the second crossover, I ran a wire directly from LP2 to the positive connector of the CD.

Voodoocrue - Good luck with your Ewave. I actually enjoyed building the crossovers the most. I had the boards lying around the garage and they were perfect size. I layed out the components on the board and hot glued them. I purchased the "solder tabs" from Radioshack and hot glued them to the board. I measured the jumper wires and soldered everything up.

I believe the Zilchlab boards are still available and will simplfy the crossover build. Can anyone confirm availability?

Use the diagram posted in this link - http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151281&d=1242968714
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much Xtinc ,this is just what I needed.So far my only speaker building experience has been a Infinity Kappa VQ 12 sub build that is very popular at another site which didn't require any crossover building skills so needless to say the pictures with the diagrams really help me to make sense of the schematic. My parts came in yesterday so I plan on blowing the dust off my soldering gun tonight and see what kind of damage I can create :music:.I'll keep ya all posted on how this turns out.
 
JoMoCo said:
Untested or unpublished as yet but this could be a proto-candidate...time will tell ...but may not be "econo" ....:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the one that was designed over on the AVS forum to replace the QSC model, but also make it much better. I looked around to get it prototyped.

It's a long read:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291022

Final_SEOS15.jpg





There was a lot of time put into the design. The one in the photo is the final fiberglass version. I know another guy that was trying to get it made from a different material that would likely be cheaper, but not sure how that turned out just yet.

I also emailed back and forth with Zilch and he was going to do the testing because he really liked this shape. Zilch was going to do the design work and offer the crossovers and components on his site and I was going to offer the waveguides and the enclosure flat packs for all his designs.

We were both going to have our sites go live in January and link between them. I had the Econowave stuff ready to upload before he passed away. It's really sad. Obviously some of that is on hold because I really don't know if people want to continue with it. I also don't know what size enclosures he wanted me to get priced, so everything was put on hold. It was going to be pretty nice.


I did get my site up and also started the Group Buys on a few projects, including the waveguides.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/

The photo above, with more info, is under the Elliptical waveguides.


I really don't know what to do about the other stuff that Zilch was hoping to have done. I'm willing to still do it and actually want to, but I need some help on a few things. I've never posted a message on this site until Zilch passed away. I usually keep busy over at AVS and would really like to hold up my end on what we discussed so that more people can enjoy his work.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom