When adjusting vTF, you should let your ears be your guide. I don't have a test record, but I can usually hear when tracking is off. I can hear when music is out of phase and also can hear when the wires in the headshell have been swopped. I think in my situation, , I need to find a turntable that allows me to adjust tracking force on the fly. Tweaking with vTF has gotten me in to trouble, but the problem seems to be fixed.
How to determine best tracking force
- Thread starter arcorob
- Start date
Balifly
Listening
The very idea gives me the creeps!
Bending and snapping off cantilevers by the dozen.....
turntabletym
Well-Known Member
You have right, it's important keeping manufacturer recommendations, too much VTF can destroy cantilever suspension and also the record. Having a test record it's necesary if you want to be sure the setting it's perfect, you can set VTF by the ear, the sound might be good, but you can't be sure what's happened in the groove. Test record helps you to make an proper setting in no time.
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test record and O'scope
About 35 years agi I worked a cartridge clinic with a engineer from the Shure factory. I noticed he was setting every cartridge that came in at whatever that cartridge's manufactorer had spec'd as the highest tracking force . He would then confirm the tracking ability and anti-skating using a test record and o-scope. His comment on tracking force specs was " Minim is from advertising dept - maximum from engineering -believe whichever you want." I learned how to test with a o'scope/test record that day and in a monkey see/monkey do fashion have been setting up arms/carts that way for decades.Have set up several thousand arm/carts that way and both I and my customers were happy with the consistent result you get from confirming your set up visually on a o'scope. It is also pretty meaningless to talk about a carts VTF without mentioning what arm it's being used in. LOTS of cart/arm combo's won't track the last inner anti-skating track on the HFN&RR test LP -IMO this is not important in terms of playing back a LP safely (in terms of record wear) and cleanly in terms of getting what the cart/arm is capable of. I would be hesitant to play my records on anything that can't at least be set up to manage the second to the last anti-skating band.BTW-used oscilloscopes are at this late date pretty much dirt cheap.
If you are not VERY confident of the condition of your stylus (almost always the case with used styli) -remember your records are at this late date essentially irreplaceable -put in a new styli or retip. Some of the saddest experiences I had in the stereo biz were when record collectors would make pretty massive upgrades in equipment and really hear the damage they had done with the previous "record player".
About 35 years agi I worked a cartridge clinic with a engineer from the Shure factory. I noticed he was setting every cartridge that came in at whatever that cartridge's manufactorer had spec'd as the highest tracking force . He would then confirm the tracking ability and anti-skating using a test record and o-scope. His comment on tracking force specs was " Minim is from advertising dept - maximum from engineering -believe whichever you want." I learned how to test with a o'scope/test record that day and in a monkey see/monkey do fashion have been setting up arms/carts that way for decades.Have set up several thousand arm/carts that way and both I and my customers were happy with the consistent result you get from confirming your set up visually on a o'scope. It is also pretty meaningless to talk about a carts VTF without mentioning what arm it's being used in. LOTS of cart/arm combo's won't track the last inner anti-skating track on the HFN&RR test LP -IMO this is not important in terms of playing back a LP safely (in terms of record wear) and cleanly in terms of getting what the cart/arm is capable of. I would be hesitant to play my records on anything that can't at least be set up to manage the second to the last anti-skating band.BTW-used oscilloscopes are at this late date pretty much dirt cheap.
If you are not VERY confident of the condition of your stylus (almost always the case with used styli) -remember your records are at this late date essentially irreplaceable -put in a new styli or retip. Some of the saddest experiences I had in the stereo biz were when record collectors would make pretty massive upgrades in equipment and really hear the damage they had done with the previous "record player".
I have an ADC ZLM Improved mounted on a Thorens TD126 with TP16 MKIII low mass tonearm. After a few weeks of listening I found that 1.1g VTF works best. Antiskate is set using the HiFi News test record which resulted in a setting higher than what the tonearm's scale recommends.
Your results may differ as the tonearm on the 6350 looks like its a high mass arm. If it were me, I would err on the lower end of the 1.0g-1.25g range you have tried. The ZLM is (very) high compliance. Too much weight together with the highish tonearm effective mass may adversely affect stylus suspension life.
arcorob
Addicted Member
So true
SO TRUE..Awesome post. Marketing wants to cater to the audiophile seeking the lowest mass tracking weight because of the concept of less weight/less wear/optimal results. Engineering on the other hand knows that optimal sound will come from optimal stylus pressure fitting the groove walls all the way with less resonent explosion...a good picture of this can be found here if you scroll down to the part where it says choosing a cartridge...Look at the diagram of the stylus in the groove and how this works. One of the better explinations I have seen. And thus proving that VTF should be set near or at the high side. Tomearm mass is irrelevant since setting accurate VTF accounts for that balance...the only exception being any bounce with the cantilever..a more massive tonearm will push the cantilever flexiblity more than a lighter one (an object in motion will have higher force based on its mass)
SO TRUE..Awesome post. Marketing wants to cater to the audiophile seeking the lowest mass tracking weight because of the concept of less weight/less wear/optimal results. Engineering on the other hand knows that optimal sound will come from optimal stylus pressure fitting the groove walls all the way with less resonent explosion...a good picture of this can be found here if you scroll down to the part where it says choosing a cartridge...Look at the diagram of the stylus in the groove and how this works. One of the better explinations I have seen. And thus proving that VTF should be set near or at the high side. Tomearm mass is irrelevant since setting accurate VTF accounts for that balance...the only exception being any bounce with the cantilever..a more massive tonearm will push the cantilever flexiblity more than a lighter one (an object in motion will have higher force based on its mass)
I understand that having a test record is important, and I will probably get one. I rely on my hearing a lot having been blind since I was 3 months old. I have been around audio for most of my life, and I promise you when a stylus is not tracking properly, I can hear it. I have just learned to know what to listen for. believe me I am very careful when adjusting things. When people hear my system, they seem to be impressed, so I must be doing something right.
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Hi, we usually found antiskate to be set lower then the tracking force. As a side note I remember on a trip to the Klipsch factory they had just introducted the line of Klipsh moving coil cartridges. They sounded excellent on their system mounted in a Linn LP12. When we ordered and got them in the store I mounted one up in a Thorens and max VTF was 2.5, at 2.5 it was not running at a point via test record and 0-scope that made me happy. It was close and it did not matter how much more you added to the VTF that was the best it would do. Sonically it sounded very nice. So you do have to take into consideration the diamond tip shape and the weight of the cartridge. Again I always found at or close to ma. spec. max VTF to be the best.
On the tables that have the spring antiskate it was always set lower. You will find as you turn it up there is a certain point where it really turns on, this is usually enough. Also and I am sure this will draw debate: Put a record on your TT, now zero out the VTF and put tonearm over a point mid way over the record, now slowly turn antiskate knob the moment the arm moves outward you are good.
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Joe Grado's Parlour Trick
Something like 35 years ago - Joe Grado turned me on to a simple way to set VTF if you didn't know the cart's specs. Simply look at the stylus in a relaxed state (cuied up off the record ) note the distance between the stylus tip and the bottom of the stylus assembly or cartridge body. Adjust VTF until you halve that distance when you cue the cartridge down onto a record. Assuming that the stylus bar is easily visible (Stanton's for instance were a little tough to observe ) -this is surprisingly effective.
Something like 35 years ago - Joe Grado turned me on to a simple way to set VTF if you didn't know the cart's specs. Simply look at the stylus in a relaxed state (cuied up off the record ) note the distance between the stylus tip and the bottom of the stylus assembly or cartridge body. Adjust VTF until you halve that distance when you cue the cartridge down onto a record. Assuming that the stylus bar is easily visible (Stanton's for instance were a little tough to observe ) -this is surprisingly effective.
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
The "standard" for me is tracking near the upper end of the range. Example: I have a Denon DL-110, which provides a tracking range with the upper end limit at 2.1 grams. I track mine right at 2.0.