It's the first watt that counts. The rest is just moar louderer best first watt.
Yamaha B-1 Alert
- Thread starter Elroy
- Start date
It's the first watt that counts. The rest is just moar louderer best first watt.
cubby01
aka Buck
For one that 160 was a very conservative rating, IIRC someone around here put on a bench an hit around 270 to clipping.
Secondly doubling the watts only results in a 3db sound level difference.
The difference is the sound quality - and has a lot to do with the type of transistors used, a VMOSFET. I don't have the technical background to explain what makes them sound good it but people seem to like it.
By the way, WPC is not a measurement of sound quality. Look at all the car amps you can get that have extreem WPC advertized yet sound like crap.
:lmao: Tell us how you really feel?
Well, he did request "can someone put it in dummy terms please".
Possibly..All one would have to do is swap out the two power transformers and the power plug.
I think you all were a little rough on the guy! As far as running a 240 dedicated cuircut to your listening space thats not hard, just put another breaker in the panel, run some 12-2 romex, from the panel from the attic to the panel and to the listening space room, drop it down inside the wall, cut out a hole with a cut in old work box, put a receptical in the box and put on the cover. Most all 220 which is what the US mainly refers to it, is just two legs of the 110 so you need to use a double pole breaker 20 amp. Many amps that were shipped to the US have a switch on the back or can be opened up inside and changed over inside to run on the higher voltage. It really would be a better voltage to use on a power amp if you really have a large amp that can suck up some juice. Because one has to consider in your listening space, that recepticle you plug your audio gear in, just jumps from that recepticle to another and another the whole room and probably another room as well. So depending on how many other items are plugged into that cuircut, they are all drawing off that one 12-2 wire to the panel. A big power amp that is rated on the back of being capable of drawing lets say 1000 watts, and then you have your TV and lights, and in the case of older homes without many recepticles, I have seen many people put powerstrips all packed with things drawing current. And then, you plug in a little heater at the base of your desk to warm your legs, you will see the amp having a real problem with the voltage drop from to many other draws. Oh on lots of old homes, they didn't use wire nuts they just twisted them together and wrapped some tape around the connection. and they used, 14 gauge wire often.
I have some pretty good size SAE amps, you should see the powercords that SAE put on there amps, they look like what an Electrical Dryer or your range uses. In this house that I am working on I have run a dedicated cuircut to all my Audio racks, just because you need a good line voltage. I complained to the power company that dropped the line to my house, and they brought in a brand new service from the pole with much larger and new feeds. They told me when I started on the house that the service was kind of marginal, and when I started increasing my electrical loads they would do it, and they did with no problem.
Now back to the Yamaha, lets not get to over board about the B1 being something like the best thing that ever came to audio, there were and are many other amps that I think would better the Yamaha and they don't use V-FET's. And hey how many really good amps, use Tubes? And the audio reveiwers used many types of amps and many great and not so great amps as their Reference amps, the Crown DC300's were used as Reference amps I wouldn't say they are the end all amps out there. Not to say that Yamaha amp won't sound great for many speakers, but it won't be the best for all speakers and I certianly know of many other amps I would rather have.
Edit:::::: When you put a 220 recepticle in make sure you use one that is for 220 the positive leg prong will be horizontal instead of veritcal that way someone won't mistakenly plug something rated for 110 into it!
More my idea of a Reference amp!
I have some pretty good size SAE amps, you should see the powercords that SAE put on there amps, they look like what an Electrical Dryer or your range uses. In this house that I am working on I have run a dedicated cuircut to all my Audio racks, just because you need a good line voltage. I complained to the power company that dropped the line to my house, and they brought in a brand new service from the pole with much larger and new feeds. They told me when I started on the house that the service was kind of marginal, and when I started increasing my electrical loads they would do it, and they did with no problem.
Now back to the Yamaha, lets not get to over board about the B1 being something like the best thing that ever came to audio, there were and are many other amps that I think would better the Yamaha and they don't use V-FET's. And hey how many really good amps, use Tubes? And the audio reveiwers used many types of amps and many great and not so great amps as their Reference amps, the Crown DC300's were used as Reference amps I wouldn't say they are the end all amps out there. Not to say that Yamaha amp won't sound great for many speakers, but it won't be the best for all speakers and I certianly know of many other amps I would rather have.
Edit:::::: When you put a 220 recepticle in make sure you use one that is for 220 the positive leg prong will be horizontal instead of veritcal that way someone won't mistakenly plug something rated for 110 into it!
More my idea of a Reference amp!
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I agree 100%.
I used to own the B-1's little brother,the B-2 and it is gone(still admired) without regret.
Consider though anyone who holds the SX 1980 as a benchmark that other amps should measure-up to,is standing on extremely thin benchmark ice.
Not the best place to start questioning the merit of other components.
thats a good point, never thought about that
Elroy
was here.
Didn't think anybody said it was the best amp ever. In context of its history when it debuted (1973?) it was a VERY special amp and the VFETs were quite revolutionary in their technology. The Yamaha B-1 was at that time esteemed by many to be a reference quality amp. Of course it isn't today.
I would agree on that opinion but so many people really get all silly with those big Pioneers, and I would wager a SX1980 in good shape will get as much money as the B1. I personally don't care for Receivers myself. I see you have an Accuphase preamp, I think Accuphase are great products, that reek of outstanding craftsmenship, and I would rather have a nice Accuphase amp and preamp than the Yamaha. Yamaha really was very inovative with their R&D in the late 70's and 80's, I mean way ahead of the game with the use of Be for there speaker drivers. I see some hi end speaker companies that are now once again using Be for the hi range drivers and they act like its some new inovatative design, yet Yamaha had been there done that long ago. I also see a lot of new speakers companies using the same drivers design as the Infinity EMIM's and EMIT's and laying claim as it being some kind of new design that they have discovered, it kind of makes me think twice of taking them seriously.
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V-fets still remain revolutionary technology,in the audio sphere.
The Japanese experiments with them were cursory.They are a transistor which deserve finer,simpler circuits than were utilised back when the Sony,Yamaha,JVC and Sansui amps were released.
Nelson Pass' contemporary experiments will be interesting since he is dedicated to simpler,unadorned circuits.
The true measure of these devices in audio is as yet untapped.We already know of their potential.We already know that they form the basis of good sounding amps.We just don't know yet how good they can sound.
I think that if Pass designs some stunning products with them,there may be a stimulus to reintroduce more manufacture of the devices which will lead more designers to experiment with ways of maximising their inherent virtues of linearity.
The Japanese experiments with them were cursory.They are a transistor which deserve finer,simpler circuits than were utilised back when the Sony,Yamaha,JVC and Sansui amps were released.
Nelson Pass' contemporary experiments will be interesting since he is dedicated to simpler,unadorned circuits.
The true measure of these devices in audio is as yet untapped.We already know of their potential.We already know that they form the basis of good sounding amps.We just don't know yet how good they can sound.
I think that if Pass designs some stunning products with them,there may be a stimulus to reintroduce more manufacture of the devices which will lead more designers to experiment with ways of maximising their inherent virtues of linearity.
Well what I was getting at was that the Audio publications had banks of what they considered Reference amps, I think they liked to have a lot of amps so they could play with them at their disposal. I mean imagine working for a audio publication and having rooms full of audio equipment to use at your discretion. One only wonders how many rooms full of equipment audio companies would give them to keep in their good graces!
At one end you have teams of research engineers working at the upper tiers of technology to come out with a Revolutionary cutting edge system that is suppose to be the new age of audio. And then you have the other side of the coin, a simple push pull tube amp pulled out of some old organ modified and driving some real efficent old speaker and it puts the hi tech world scratching their heads!
Accuphase active crossover.
I agree with what you said about Yamaha.I sold my Yamaha PX-2,C2x and B-2 to a friend(who is an AK member).They still sound great in his system.
I was commenting to him how advanced the Yamaha flagship system of the PX-1,C1,B1 and NS 1000 was in the day.Really there was nothing to compare in the West on a technological level.The contemporary 'State Of The Art' that was being held-up in the West at the time(in the UK media especially),was absolutely laughable and deplorably indicative of cronyism to certain manufacturers.( I will single-out Linn and Naim here particularly).The journalists were in bed with the manufacturers and the UK public were brainwashed to believe that there was nothing better.
In comparison,that Yamaha system I described above(PX-1/C1/B1/NS1000) was light years ahead of the horse and buggy Linn/Naim paradigm.No way were the public going to be told that by the UK media.The rot was exported to the US with the appointment of John Atkinson as the editor in chief of Stereophile,and the manufacturers and media continued their lucrative brainwashing of the Western audio marketplace.
The global lack of acceptance of the boundary-pushing Japanese product,stifled further development of these cutting edge designs (which were developed and manufactured at a loss to the corporations).Thus we find 35+ years on, that Direct Drives/Beryllium drivers and V-fets are only now rearing their heads again as cutting-edge audio technology available to the audio public(at a price).
What a loss it was to audio at large,that a ruthless bunch of unprincipled CEOs(are you listening Ivor?) and journalists conspired together to bury the Japanese majors who threatened their sham hold on the title of manufacturers of Premium Audio Products.
The emperor's new clothes paradigm ruled audio for far too long.It is still strong, but it exists on far shakier ground than it used to.
I have two pairs of NS-500m's, a pair of NS-1000m's, one pair of the 500's I lent to my father so he could have some decent speakers, the others are all stuck in a spare room, have not been used for a number of years. The PX2 that I have I like but its very frustating to me, sometimes it has a mind of its own. And just when I am about to give up working on it, and think I need to send it off to a proffesional, it starts working fine, and just when I get to think its dependable, it acts up. But it sure is an impressive piece of engineering, I mean when you open it up, the cuircut boards in it looks more like a preamp or amp than the insides of a TT.
Oh I like your term of the "The emperor's new clothes", thats a great song, I think its sung by Shophia Hawkins!
Oh I like your term of the "The emperor's new clothes", thats a great song, I think its sung by Shophia Hawkins!
Bigears
Manager of my own day
I'd like to jump in here with a few facts about the seller and the amp. The seller is not in the least technically inclined and in no way at all an audiophile or collector. He buys and sells.
This unit was found as is, powered up on 120V and the observations relayed in the listing. I came within minutes of purchasing this amp, but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have done work for the seller in the past and he asked me at the time if I had a way to power it up on 240V and test it for him, which I replied no. I saw the standard 120 grounded plug and figured it may have been rewired or somehow switched internally to 120.
I'd advise taking this one at face value, nothing more, nothing less. I don't believe there is any intentional deception, it truly was not tested beyond what was stated. :yes:
I have absolutely no connection to this sale, just happen to have some info on this one...
This unit was found as is, powered up on 120V and the observations relayed in the listing. I came within minutes of purchasing this amp, but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have done work for the seller in the past and he asked me at the time if I had a way to power it up on 240V and test it for him, which I replied no. I saw the standard 120 grounded plug and figured it may have been rewired or somehow switched internally to 120.
I'd advise taking this one at face value, nothing more, nothing less. I don't believe there is any intentional deception, it truly was not tested beyond what was stated. :yes:
I have absolutely no connection to this sale, just happen to have some info on this one...
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Bigears,
This guy might benefit from learning more about the nature of v-fet amps.This thread has highlighted that operating a v-fet amp on an insufficient mains voltage has the distinct possibility(or even probability) of destroying the irreplaceable output devices.
Given,as you have posited that the amp may have been operated at 120v prior to his purchase of it,the chance that it may have been toast before it came into his hands is highly likely.Thus the outcome of this auction also appears likely to conclude in the buyer making a claim against him for a B-1 which doesn't operate.
He could have saved himself potential grief if he understood the distinction between this type of amp and all other transistor amps.Firstly by determining that it operated before he bought it.Secondly,by not attempting to power it up on a lesser voltage than that stated requirements on the compliance plate.
You should be grateful that you didn't purchase this amp,because the mains voltage issues of this 240v B-1 are manifold,and it is an accident waiting to happen.
