TubeDAC-11 Tube Rolling

For the last week or so (50 plus hours) I've been trying a 6DJ8/ECC88 GE branded Amperex made in Holland white label. Sounded pretty good but not a significant improvement over the original Chinese tube.

Received a Sylvania JAN 6DJ8/ECC88 made in USA green label in the mail today. Will be checking it out over the next week or two.

Also ordered a 6922 Amperex made in Holland white label with gold pins (D getter). I think this one's from the late 50s. Having fun....

Best sounding tube in my DAC11 so far. I feel very fortunate to have picked these 2 up for a reasonable price. They were sealed and never opened,so they never have been tested,but I have to say the Seimens sound beautiful.Mids are perfect for vocals,Bass is tight not boomy but full and the treble does not hurt my ears but is very much there. I have to try a Telefunken 6922/CCa and my search will be over. The Seimens is a keeper...

I've just realized that this isn't on the product page (will fix, should be an add on option for $100 when ordering the TubeDAC-11) and is something that should be considered prior to tube rolling. We voiced the TubeDAC-11 with our PC-1.5 power cable, the PC-1.5 dramatically improves the sound of the TubeDAC-11 over the supplied standard power cable. The power supply section is designed to have the RF filtering qualities and filtered current delivery of the PC-1.5 cable which ensures a very close to 'false harmonic' free power supply. This improves the bass instrument separation and layering which in turn opens up the midrange. As great as the TubeDAC-11 is in stock form it goes up the ladder a few steps with the PC-1.5.

We'll extend this offer to anyone who has already purchased, normal price is $125 for the 1.5 meter. Just email us with your TubeDAC-11 purchase info.

To really hear what your tube rolls are doing and what the stock tube sounds like, this is highly recommended, even some of the die-hard cable skeptics have been converted by the PC-1.5

http://www.audioreview.ca/default.aspx?pagename=review&reviewID=21

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9298&hilit=eat+crow+grant

When doing your tube roll comparisons please let us know if stock cable or an upgrade power cable.

Thanks,
Ian

Cheers,
Ian

Wish I had know sooner. Just bought something else last week.

I just rolled in a JJ Electronics E88CC Gold pins....Really nice, warm(er), than the stock tube. The bass seems deeper and fuller, which might be too much for my Epic 2's since they produce so much bass as it is. The mids seem better, for now I can't say much more as this is after about 20min of listening.
I will give this E88CC another 2 hours and see what happens.....then compare in about 2 weeks.

The power cable is interesting....I guess I am one of those "non believers" on power cords. But will consider it.....I can't right now, just purchased a new NAD C356BEE integrated amp.
So I am broke right now....:tears:

2string1 said:

Trying a Sylvania 6922 in my DAC-11 and my goodness this tube sounds great. The highs are beautiful. My ears can't take high harness and this tube has none. It is a well balanced tube. I've always leaned toward the German tubes but I got say this USA tube is brilliant. Oh and it's cheap.

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Completely agree with this comment. I just rolled through a couple tubes and the Sylvania JAN 6922 is a winner. There is immediacy to the vocals, imaging is not pinpoint in location but there is a depth and dimensionality to it that is addicting. This lack of pinpoint imaging may be due to my speaker placement, though. The high frequency is extended but non-fatiguing. Definitely a nice step up from the stock tube. Paid $12 on eBay for this gem.

I have also rolled through a few others with the following impressions:

1. Amperex Holland 6922 ("D" getter late 50s vintage, white lettering that rubs off very easily... oops! (Had to make sure it was authentic, I guess)). Decent imaging, not as involving as the Sylvania. Good micro dynamics, not great; it feels a bit veiled and laid back. I was really hoping for more with this one. Maybe I didn't give this one enough time to warm up or it was running out of life (bought it on eBay without testing it and ran it for only 10 hours or so). Paid $25 on eBay. Will probably give it another run after I am done enjoying the tube below...

2. Electro-Harmonix Russian 6922. Louder than the other tubes. This one is an enjoyable tube. Not sure if I like it better than the Sylvania, but so far haven't wanted to put the Sylvania back in. I can tell you it helps to yield a sound that is accurate, involving, and dynamic. I have tried it with jazz, classic rock, pop, alternative and classical. Definitely a great buy for $15.

Oh, also, I'm running the stock power cable. Will probably upgrade at some point to a beefier 14AWG cable to match what's coming out of the wall socket.

I've been running an early 1960's gold pin (made in the USA) Amperex PQ 6922tube in the DAC-11 for the last 40 hours or so. This tube was NIB and testing over 100% when I received it. So far it is on par with the Telefunken ECC88 and the gold pin Philips tubes I've previously used in my DAC-11. It is however a notch below the pinched waist Holland made ECC88 tube (that is my reference tube). I plan on giving more time to this PQ tube as it may have more to offer given more time.

I believe Amperex is the original developer of the 6922/ECC88 tube family and they certainly made good sounding 6922's!

Worth seeking out for the DAC-11!

Wb

PS: I use a Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 power cord with the DAC-11.

Strange.....as I noted earlier I rolled in an E88CC gold pin JJ Elec and the last 4-5 hours of play I seem to have lost low end, bass is very deficient. Although this also goes with I just received my new NAD C356BEE and I assume that needs some time to open up and give me more.
I'll leave it in for a few more days and see if I am still low end deficient.....I might roll the stock tube back in and them purchase a 6922, which I think is known for better low end.

As a tube newb it would be nice if someone might post a list of tube numbers/variations that would work in the TubeDAC-11....

6N11 stock vacuum tube (can be replaced with 6922, E88CC, 6DJ8, 6H23n and CCa tubes)

That should keep you busy for a bit

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks! I like the stock for now... a lot...

I've got some Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 on the way from a fellow AKer. I'll post impressions later in the week. Sounds very good with stock so any improvements will be a bonus!

Thinking about trying a new tube. What's the proper procedure for removing the stock tube inside the dac 11? I've never messed with tubes and would prefer not to break anything

Well.....I have been home the last 2 days from work sick, The plus is it has given me a lot of time to play, tweek my system. Yesterday I probably listened to music for 12 hours..but I was really not enjoying myself.
This morning I rolled back in the stock tube in my DAC11....and voila!!! My low end is back just like that! The E88CC goldpin JJE had maybe 40 hrs on it, so I figured that was enough. Now I also just purchased a new amp noted above and if anything I thought this moring it would sound the same.
But alas it did not, the amp has more umpfff with the stock tube.

I am waiting on a Jan-Phillips 6922 from thetubestore, this one is suppose to deliver very good low end. I'll report on that roll in a month or so.....for now I am back to enjoying the stock tube.

Just rolled the Russian EH 6922 into the DAC-11.. been listening for approximately two hours with the Sennheiser HD580..this tube's got a lovely sound.

The stock tube's bass is more lush & 'punchy' in comparison to the EH tube. The stock tube's midrange sounds a tad more forward. Where the EH tube's midrange is clean, crisp, and neutral, the stock tube's midrange offer more of the stereotypical 'tube flavor' with it's warm, thicker, liquid mids (almost ortho-like). The stock tube's treble is smoother by comparison; the EH tube offers a crisper, brighter treble.

To my ears, gain levels seem even between these two tubes.

mickster1972 described the EH's sound as "accurate, involving, and dynamic".. that couldn't be a more apt description. I'd add 'clean' to that list. Bass is tight, fast.. but has a nice, natural decay. The midrange and treble has astonishing clarity, balance, & detail. There's a noticeable improvement in instrument separation, resolution, & soundstage (the stock tube has a bit more depth, while the EH has noticeably more width) vs the stock tube. The sound from the EH tube is more expansive and lively while the stock tube is a more intimate & 'closer to the stage.'

Tonally, the EH tube's sound is on the cooler, crisp side neutral.. but music sounds very full and dynamic. The DAC-11's famed, uber-'black background' is in full 'show off' mode with this tube too... that's one thing that jumped out at me immediately.. very very impressive.

All this being said, the stock tube is really quite superb. The EH offers more of a different flavor than any kind of glaring, outright improvement, as a whole. I definitely see myself rolling both in when the mood demands.

I've only got a few hours on the EH tube so we'll see where it takes me as they burn in.. but I'm certainly impressed and for the ~$15 or so I paid for them, I couldn't be happier.

Can anyone recommend a warmer, more lush, colored tube (that's in the same price range, <$30) to complement this EH tube? I'd like to have three tubes that kind of complement each other. The EH is one the brighter, more neutral side of the spectrum, the stock tube seems to fall right in the middle.. so I'd like to have a tube to that's warm, velvety, but on par (if not better) from a technical standpoint to the other two.

Thanks to mickster1972 for recommending me the EH, too.

Nice review FlySweep, I should have my Jan-Phillips 6922 by weeks end......Looking forward to another different sound with it.

alexander717 said:

Thinking about trying a new tube. What's the proper procedure for removing the stock tube inside the dac 11? I've never messed with tubes and would prefer not to break anything

Click to expand...

Turn down amp volume or turn off, unplug power on the 11, open her up (8 x #2 torx screwdriver or the included hex key, use the short side) , gently rock the tube out using gentle pull/rock motion, note the 9 pins and the space (like a pin missing) on the tube and the same pattern on the socket, gently push in new tube with rocking/push motion until seated. If tight use your second hand to hold the board the socket sits on. Once you 've done this, it will be old school for you

Plug in power and turn it on, watch the tube (before unplugging look at the stock tube running and the two little lights) for any signs of weird or no lights after 10 or so seconds), bring up volume on amp and check for weird again. If all is good start listening. If anything seems wrong, ask here again.

Hope that helps,
Ian

Catcher10 said:

Nice review FlySweep, I should have my Jan-Phillips 6922 by weeks end......Looking forward to another different sound with it.

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+1.

I should have some of those kicking around, the EH 6922 is the stock tube in our CD-1000. FlySweep, just about every Old Stock tube I have tried seems to lean towards the 'more lush' side in the 11, anything Amperex seems to be an excellent match that relegates the stock tube to reference or back up duty and is also still a nice roll.

The great thing is that you only need one tube and it doesn't need to be new, so no need to drop big bucks on a tube, unless you come across the pinched waist that keeps getting mentioned by Wolfbane. A customer brought me in an Amperex 6DJ8 made in the USA that tested at 45% on my lab grade tester and it sounds awesome, not sure how long it will last, but could give a few years of pleasure for peanuts.

The Holland made RCA 6DJ8 is the closest to the stock tube but has more meat to it, very noticeable on electric guitar, that is the tube I think is an upgrade path to the 11 without altering it's bang on balance.

The Mullard ECC88 is the lushest tube so far, might be too lush for some, but it won't be leaving my hands

Cheers,
Ian

I'd like to try a Mullard...one day:tears:

Listening right now to Rush Caress of Steel........Its one of those albums that is recorded and mastered very well from back in the day. This has been my reference vinyl between the 2 tubes I have.......Clear winner is the stock tube. Guitars are nice and crisp, clean and not shrilly at all, it helps you appreciate the guitar feedback. Drums are deep and the stock tube adds the warmth they need......Cymbals are tinny which is nice.
It also improves on the soundstage quite a bit.........I am not disapointed with the JJE E88CC gold, it just presents a cleaner almost non-analog sound which is not what I am looking for.

Thanks for the explanation, Grant!