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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Econowave with JBL 2035HPL

I´m very sad about this notice :tears:
I´ve just sent him a few mails with no answers. It was very strange.

I asked him about building cabs with JBL 2035HPL plus Selenium D220Dti on JBL waveguide (as econowave project). He sent me xovers for LE14A.

Does anyone help me about the modifications on the xovers and cabs/vented ports sizing for 2035HPL ones?

Thanks a lot.
 
midwoofer said:
I´m very sad about this notice :tears:
I´ve just sent him a few mails with no answers. It was very strange.

I asked him about building cabs with JBL 2035HPL plus Selenium D220Dti on JBL waveguide (as econowave project). He sent me xovers for LE14A.

Does anyone help me about the modifications on the xovers and cabs/vented ports sizing for 2035HPL ones?

Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...

If you have not seen it, there's some info here.
I'm not sure if that's the same woofer though.

There's a memorial/obituary thread on AK for Zilch started by wiredbecker.
 
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Rob does NOT say that - you misread. They will struggle a little to meet the Selenium (in dispersion, at least), but they can do 1-1.2k, as Rob did say ;). For the enclosure, you could copy the 3677, although I'm guessing more bass can be coaxed out in a larger box at the expensive of power handling (have not simulated it).
 
dumptruck said:
Rob does NOT say that - you misread. They will struggle a little to meet the Selenium (in dispersion, at least), but they can do 1-1.2k, as Rob did say ;). For the enclosure, you could copy the 3677, although I'm guessing more bass can be coaxed out in a larger box at the expensive of power handling (have not simulated it).
Click to expand...

Thanks, DT. Post edited.
midwoofer, you're in good hands with dt.
 
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Thanks, but what´s the size of the vented ports and the modifications in the Zilch´s xovers for that woofer?

I´m thinking to put the waveguide outside the cabs so I could move it to proof what´s the best sound. It´s better than inside?

Regards.
 
After looking at the specs for several systems that used the 2035, none of them crossed higher than 1200 Hz. You need crossover at ~1600 to use the D220Ti. You can try it but you are on your own to tweak the crossover to make it work. The "LE14" version of the crossover is somewhere to start. Leave the HF section alone and adjust the LF components as you see fit.

Good luck!
 
As much as a compromise it was to come up with the basic, entry level design, Ewave package. Zilch nailed it. I know he spent a lot of time making the DC 300 work and all I can say is God bless you... This entry level speaker system will play it all very well! God Bless You Z:yes:

Tony
 
dodog's combo EWave + Parham H290C waveguide

Dodog is building EWaves using LE14 woofers, DE250 compression drivers, Parham H290C waveguides and a “combo” EWave crossover (Ewave DeLuxe HF and EWave LE14 LF.)

Since I have the new Parham waveguides and DE250s, he sent me a crossover for measuring with those components. I do not have LE14s, unfortunately, so I cannot speculate how the system will work with those woofers.

This measurement shows dodog’s EWave combo crossover (LE14 low pass/Deluxe high pass) with LPAD set to midpoint. I put an 8 Ohm dummy load on the LF section. The horn is overhanging the cabinet, not mounted in a baffle. Measured at 1 meter, on tweeter axis:

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The next measurement shows the same crossover, DE250 and H290C plus my JBL 123A-1 woofer. For this test the waveguide overhangs the cabinet top by 1.25”. This woofer is very short and though rear mounted, will still point the forward lobe up. Including the overhang and .75” baffle rear mount, the max inverse peak (GREEN) is roughly 10º up from tweeter axis. The normal polarity measurement (BLUE) is taken from that same 10º up position. A zobel filter might help the 123A-1's top-end sum better. However, dodog is not using that woofer, so the second graph is interesting, but not very applicable.

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In any case, clearly the tweeter response with this horn and crossover is excellent. Hopefully, it will integrate well with the LE14. dodog, I don’t think we could have imagined a better outcome. I’ll pack up your crossover and send it back to you over the weekend.

EDIT:
Here are reference measurements of dodog’s crossover using the QSC waveguide, which the Deluxe was designed for:

Tweeter:

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This shows both the QSC/DE250 and the 123A-1 woofer together, 10º above tweeter axis, as stated above, reverse and normal polarity:

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I did not fine tune the inverse polarity null to find the precise forward lobe angle, but it's pretty close.

All measurements at 1 meter/gated with a half hanning window good to 588Hz, no smoothing.
FYI: I will be building 3Pi speakers with my H290Cs; waiting for AE woofers.
 

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I don't think Wayne did a 15" Lambda design. The TD12S brings the bass big time, anyway. Speaking of that bass stuff, are you going to up the cabinet size for some more?
 
This is most excellent news. When I started on this project I measured the old baffles from the Barzilay cabs that I will be using. I didn't take into account that the baffle, mounted from inside the cab, loses some real-estate and the height/width is actually smaller than the baffle outside of the box. That was mistake #1. I also didn't account for the "squircle" frame on the LE14A woofer, which ate up another ~3" of real estate. Assuming all was well, I soldered together all my ewave PCBs so there was no chance of ever returning the caps... that was mistake #3. All in all this "econo" project has been quite pricey. Just when I thought I was sunk, skywave showed off the new Pi waveguides. He was nice enough to offer to do the measurements and it appears that I'll be able to pull this off.

FWIW, I took both measurements that skywave posted (QSC in green, Pi in red) and Photoshopped them together. I believe (while toying with opactiy) that these overlay correctly.

attachment.php


qsc_green_pi_red_de250.png
 
Great work guys - Just a quick 2¢ - Put a Zobel on the midwoofer.

I've found that Zobels really are a requirement on speakers like these, with exception of the rare midwoofer that has nearly purely resistive impedance (like AE). Voice coil inductance interacts with the core splitter filter in the woofer circuit, giving it an underdamped transfer function. The woofer's impedance rises in the crossover range, so it's kind of like using a 12Ω or 16Ω driver with an 8Ω crossover. Makes a peak around the crossover frequency.

See the sections on "Zobels" in the following documents:

 
Hi All, some time ago (maybe two years ago) my friend Dell came down from northern Michigan and we built a pair of eWaves for him. YOu can see the build here

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4001756&postcount=11737

I got the woofers from BMW75 and initially they sounded good, but Dell had to leave so we couldn't really test them. Well, just two weekends back we went up and visited with Dell and his wife. Dell and I had a lot of time to listen to the eWaves while we were there. He thinks they sound wonderful......I know better.

The 12" woof we used, I know now, is a subwoofer and rolls off at about 800hz so there is a big hole between 800hz and the crossover point of the eWave horn.

SOOOOO, I need to figure out what woofer would work well in his cabs. They are Infinity cabs we got from Andyman and measure internally 2.5 cu ft without the horns and woofers installed. I don't know how much room they take up.

What woofers would you suggest???
 
Dennis, you might look at the Dayton that Zilch used in the standard build. I have a set built in a sealed cab of about 2 cu ft. They sound very good. Bass is clean and tight. Don't go real low, but mid bass is better than my Vals.
 
I'm going to be building some soon with MCM 12" woofers I got from Scott1019. Supposedly they go low and are smooth into the midrange.

I was recently looking at the Celestion buyout woofers on PE and they look to be a good choice.

Edit: oops those are 15s...
 
Mmaxed said:
Dennis, you might look at the Dayton that Zilch used in the standard build. I have a set built in a sealed cab of about 2 cu ft. They sound very good. Bass is clean and tight. Don't go real low, but mid bass is better than my Vals.
Click to expand...
You can get more bass and limit excursion at higher volumes a bit too, if you go to bass reflex. If you want to try it and need help with the port calculation, let me know.
 
wiredbecker said:
Hey Skywave, why the 3pi? Why not the 4pi?
Click to expand...

wiredbecker,
I am sold on 12" woofers for 2 ways such as EWave speakers. Zilch came to that conclusion and I agree. That's not to say 15" woofers can't be made to work well, they clearly can.

Also, I use 4Pi monitors at work, and I'm very familiar with them. They are great. So a little diversity never hurt. I am also curious about AE woofers.

dumptruck said:
I don't think Wayne did a 15" Lambda design. The TD12S brings the bass big time, anyway. Speaking of that bass stuff, are you going to up the cabinet size for some more?
Click to expand...

dumptruck,
I will probably go with the cab as designed, not bigger. The reason is that I live in an apartment, and if I move in the near term, it will be to another smallish place, so smaller cabinets are more flexible for me.

dodog said:
...

FWIW, I took both measurements that skywave posted (QSC in green, Pi in red) and Photoshopped them together. I believe (while toying with opactiy) that these overlay correctly.

]
Click to expand...

dodog,
I have to mention that I did not intend to show both QSC 152i and Parham H290C overlaid on one another. But you did a great job Photoshopping that. Wayne saw your overlay and mentioned to me that the H290C should actually have more spl compared to the QSC. The reason it does not in my measurements, overlaid, is because I measured the QSC the next day after I had broken down the test setup. Although I measured from exactly the same distance and placements, I did not have my output pots on my interface exactly the same as the previous day. I know because although I marked my amp setting, I forgot to mark the interface, and i really did not expect to add another measurement anyway. If I was more organized, I would have done them in one session and you could see the spl difference accurately. However, both measurements, on their own, are perfectly good for comparing response, which is what we were looking for in this case.
 
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