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Tuner or antenna more important?

S

superultra

Active Member
I want to pick up KALX (Berkeley), I live in San Francisco. Right now I have a Pioneer sx-626 and a magnum Dynalab st-2 antenna on my fire escape. The signal is weak and scratchy. If I had a better tuner would that make a significant difference or are there other solutions? I was looking at a sx-828 or a separate Kenwood KT-7100, thoughts on these? Or am I basically stuck with what I have? I don't really have options for the antenna placement.

Thanks
 
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I got worse reception using my ST-2 than a simple folded dipole. I would go to your nearest Radio Shack and get a FD for around $8 and try that first. Try rotating the "T" toward Berkeley and watch the signal strength meter, don't just pin it up to the nearest wall.
 
Suggest that before you start spending money, getting other equipment, etc. why not try moving the antenna and tuner around and see if you can get better reception?
Try and put the antenna at the highest point, like the roof, pole, etc.
I would recommend doing this first before spending more money on other antenna and/or tuner.
 
Height will make more of a difference than anything else. Also, which direction are you facing? Any chance of facing north?
 
Tuner can make a difference, but antenna seems to make more difference.

Using the same 75ohm antenna, my JVC does not pull distant stations in as well as my Denon with better sensitivity. The difference in signal strenght is slight (the signal meters on each are of course not calibrated to each other so hard to tell). But it is enough that on one station I listen to, it is the difference between stereo (Denon) and mono (JVC) on a typical day. Selectivity is not really an issue since in my rural area, the stations aren't crowded like they would be in SF area.
Here is a good article on the difference between tuner selectivity and sensitivity: http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/


Atmospherics also seem to affect it on a day to day basis. One day I get stereo, the other day mono - with no changes to setup.
 
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I am facing east. If I used a 50' run of cable to get to the top of the fire escape would that be worth it? I assume a longer run degrades the signal. I'll also move the tuner around my apartment.

Thanks
 
Anything to give you more height would be worth it. On a 50' run you'll need to run coax - I forget which, 52 ohm I think - but what you really need is a log periodic antenna that you can aim at the station, if that's possible. Omnidirectionals just won't do it. Those antennas used to be dirt cheap, but perhaps not anymore.

EDIT: The Yagi type antenna still seems to be available inexpensively, but won't have the gain of a log periodic.
 
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RF Signals, antennas, amplifiers, tuners, receivers..

superultra said:
I am facing east. If I used a 50' run of cable to get to the top of the fire escape would that be worth it? I assume a longer run degrades the signal. I'll also move the tuner around my apartment.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, after a certain distance your RF signal (any RF signal for that matter) may (or may not, depending) degrade, somewhat but really shouldn't make that big of a difference. Now if you feel that antenna cable distance is a 'main factor' you can always use an 'RF line amplifier' and insert between cables (that is if your going to use more than one) or attach it to the input of your antenna connections of your tuner/receiver.

I live out in the country, away from the big city. I have several tuners/receivers in my personal collection but the "main tuner" I use for receiving radio signals in my main system is a Magnum Dynalab FT-101A.
It is receiving radio signals from an outside antenna which is a Magnum Dynalab ST-2 antenna, located at the very peak/highest point of my roof. The cable coming down from it runs to a Magnum Dynalab MD-205 Signal Slueth (as it's called) RF amplifier which is then fed to the tuner (FT-101A) rear antenna connections. No problems receiving or getting any RF signals! :no:
 
superultra said:
I want to pick up KALX (Berkeley), I live in San Francisco. Right now I have a Pioneer sx-626 and a magnum Dynalab st-2 antenna on my fire escape. The signal is weak and scratchy. If I had a better tuner would that make a significant difference or are there other solutions? I was looking at a sx-828 or a separate Kenwood KT-7100, thoughts on these? Or am I basically stuck with what I have? I don't really have options for the antenna placement.

Thanks
Click to expand...

The antenna is probably 75% of the total FM DX package. Even more for MW/SW.

I've got an ST-2 and find that it's a real pain to align. Also, it doesn't necessarily work best in a vertical position. Some stations come in a lot better when the antenna is angled at 45 degrees.

On the roof of my house it worked great but now that I'm in a condo it blows.

I'm going to try a MD SR-100 silver ribbon antenna. Magnum Dynalab's SR-100 appears to be a rebranded DX Antenna Co. SS-112N which I've seen at flea markets for $10.

I have one of these silver ribbons for my cottage TV and am amazed at how well it pulls in distant stations 50 miles away.

If the $8 folding dipole doesn't work, you could try a silver ribbon or maybe get the ST-2 away from the fire escape. I assume the fire escape is metal which is a no-no for most antennas (unless you have a crystal radio).
 
G'day all, in my opinion, no tuner can perform to its best without a good antenna.

As an Amateur Radio operator I know that very well. :yes: If the OP is ok with DIY, this simple two element yagi is highly recommended. Regards, Felix (vk4fuq) aka catman.
 

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superultra said:
I want to pick up KALX (Berkeley), I live in San Francisco. Right now I have a Pioneer sx-626 and a magnum Dynalab st-2 antenna on my fire escape. The signal is weak and scratchy. If I had a better tuner would that make a significant difference or are there other solutions? I was looking at a sx-828 or a separate Kenwood KT-7100, thoughts on these? Or am I basically stuck with what I have? I don't really have options for the antenna placement.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I have an ST-2, and measured the SWR across the FM band. It really stinks at low frequencies, like 90MHz. It is really tuned for stations in the 102-106 MHz range.

Make a dipole or folded tuned to your station frequency. It's not hard, use google.

Then, if it's still weak, get a better separate tuner. Most receivers have crappy FM sections, and were not aligned that well to begin with at the factory. If you want bang for buck, look at a Yamaha T-80, or similar. These units have wide narrow IF bands and go for cheap $ for the performance. You likely need a decent narrow IF filter, which few receivers have.
 
My questions for the OP follow:

Since you are talking fire escape, is this a brick building? Do you have brick buildings between you and your station? If you were to go to the top of the fire escape, would you have a relatively clear path between you and the station?

I only ask as that static you are getting may be multipath if you are in an urban area. As others have said, more antenna is much better than a different tuner in this case, and height makes a difference.
 
I was pondering this question a few nights ago. I had just aligned my cheap Onkyo T-15 tuner as close to perfection as I could get it, and compared it side by side to the highly regarded Yamaha T-85. Bottom line is there was no jaw dropping difference between the two. The T-85 was better at pulling in weak signals, but for any given situation a better antenna would bring the T-15 up about even with it. The only other difference of note was the T-85 has less background noise than the T-15, not surprising since the published specs on noise are wildly better. Again, a better antenna keeps noise under control. The bargain basement T-15 in optimum condition, with a decent antenna, is close on the heels of the expensive T-85, so it's foolish not to put some effort into a decent antenna as opposed to spending a fortune on a tuner and then crippling it with a poor signal. OTOH, if you can have both a super tuner and super antenna...
 
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Okay it looks like I have a project this weekend, a dipole antenna. I've attached a photo looking out my kitchen window. You can see my antenna on the left. I'm looking east from the 5th of 7 floors.
 

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I would really look into the Yagi that Catman posted. And you can even make it tuneable by having adjustable ends.
I was getting stations about 100 miles away from me with mine.

You will have double the gain of the dynalab. Down side is that you have to point it where you want it. If there are close stations that you like to listen to you will still get them since the front to back ratio is higher than one with more elements.

I can send you measurements of mine if you like.
KJ4PBR
 
CrackerKorean yeah go ahead and send those to me.

Does anyone know of a decent set of photo instructions on how to construct a dipole antenna. I found an equation for the length but I'm not sure of the materials to use for the feeder arms or how to connect these to the coax that will run to the receiver.

Thanks
 
Easy, Receiving antennas are not nearly as exacting as a transmitting antenna. do you want to build a simple dipole, a vertical grown plane.
when they talk about VSWR, (Volt Standing Wave Ratio) is only
of interest if you are going to transmit with the antenna.

These calculators will get is close enough.

For a simple dipole
http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennaedcalc.html

For a Vertical antenna;
http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennaevcalc.html

I would suggest a folded dipole simple to make and simple to match.

Here is a calculator for a folded dipole;
http://www.k7mem.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/folded_dipole.html#Page_Top

Using the above calculator you come up with a folded dipole length of a couple of inches less the 5 feet across the top 4 feet 8 inches to be exact. follow the instructions. 300 ohm flat wire, TV antenna lead wire, is the best to use. Radio Shack has it but you don't need 100 feet of it. See if Lowes, Home depot,etc has it they usually sell it by the foot. Radio shack does have several different matching transformers. You attach the flat wire to the lugs and the other side is a standard antenna plug to attaches the antenna input jack, done! I used to use cloths pins to hang them up. Home Hifi receivers used to come with a folded dipoles but now is a cheap piece of wire.

300 OHM twin lead TV wire.
attachment.php



Matching transformer:
pRS1C-2159961w345.jpg
 
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