How come you don't often hear about a 3.0 setup ?

Scott11

New Member
I just bought my first AV setup a receiver Yamaha RX-V375 and Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers.

When listening to TV shows or even a movie and music the voices seems shallow/weak.

So I've decided to get center speaker and that would complete my setup. In the receiver manual it talks about a two channel and then 2.1,3.1,5.1. I'm not going to buy a sub-woofer these bookshelf's I have plenty of bass.

Before I get the center speaker, is my receiver suppose to be setup in two channel stereo mode right ? Should I be using the standard or straight option ? Also is two channel stereo what I want to only ? Can I have Dolby digital but in two channel ? Is stereo the best I can get with a two channel setup ? What if I get a center which I'm pretty sure I'll get in the next couple of days, do I choose 3 channel stereo then ? does it open up diff options when having the 3.0 setup like I'm thinking of getting ?
 
I never thought about it but my basement system, that I use primarily when working out or working on a project, is a 3.0 system. Two Timeframe TF600s and an old Polk center speaker I still have. They are driven by a big Yamaha AVR. Not real refined but good for what I use it for.

cubdog
 
I don't use a center channel in my 2.1 home theater rig. My speakers (Klipsch KG5.5) create a strong enough center image that it sounds like there's a center channel speaker there although there isn't. If the equipment is decent, room acoustics not a complete train wreck and speakers are set up properly most speaker designs will provide a good to decent center image (music/vocal/dialog is perceived to be coming from a point in the center of sound stage between the speakers). I use a Pioneer Elite AVR and just set it to 2-channel stereo with no processing.
 
Michael, which Pioneer Elite are you using?
I am running one of those as well, a SC-65.

I am not currently running a center channel either in my home theater rig.
I'm about to do a complete redo of my speakers though and the changes will include a center channel speaker (and infinite baffle subs in the attic :yes:).
 
How come you don't often hear about a 3.0 setup ?
Because there have been precious few commercial three channel recordings ever produced. Back in the 50s, Mercury Living Presence (click link) released quite a few three channel offerings using their minimal miking technique. It provided a very natural stage presentation and real depth.

Today, however, the only recordings I'm aware of that include a third channel are true multi-channel recordings that also have rear content. With movies, however, the center channel is devoted to dialogue to anchor voices to the center of the room regardless of your position.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fd1
I think they're referring to home theater 3.0 systems for movies and television, where there is discreet center channel content.
 
I think they're referring to home theater 3.0 systems for movies and television, where there is discreet center channel content.

That's what I was referring to although I use my setup mostly for music. Either music concert DVDs or on few occasions a cable music channel. It was kind of , I got it, why not use it, deal with the center channel.

cubdog
 
Last edited:
Because we can't usually get material actually DELIVERED in 3 channel.

When the material was originally recorded on a 3 track half inch recorder, 99% of the transfers/remasterings mixed it to stereo.

I would LOVE to see some straight transfers of classic 3 track recordings to DVD-A and/or SACD. Or, someone should donate an Ampex 300-3 to me and let me raid some tape vaults. I promise 24/192 transfers in return. ;)
 
Hey Scott, I was attempting to help you yesterday with your set up. There is nothing inherently "wrong" with a 3.0 set up in fact I deal with a lot of this when I am installing. As the OP's has said there is no content for that format. If you do decide to get a center speaker you will need to make sure that your content is broadcast in 5.1 for the center to even work correctly. Now you can run the RX-V375 in 5 channel stereo as many people do but I find this to not be optimal personally. The other thing to keep in mind is that when running 5.1 if you don't have surrounds, you will be missing 2 channels of audio.
I think one of the things that I was trying to get across to you yesterday is that simply getting a center speaker won't magically make your system sound a lot better depending on what format you are listening too. Also keep in mind that cable, satellite providers and the like are not broadcasting everything in 5.1. There is a lot of programming out there that is still broadcast in stereo.
Good luck and good hunting!
 
There is always the old phantom channel! Just put a single speaker centered on the rear wall connect the speaker to the right and left positive leads on your B or rear speaker connectors. It plays only the difference in the two channels. Low tech primitive, very primitive surround. :D
 
You know what I find annoying, having to have the receiver on just to listen to the news or cartoons or modern family which is a 30 mins show. I've had this running for a couple of days and already it's getting on my nerves.

Having the DVR/BD player hooked up through the receiver first then to the TV is why and I understand as to why it's like this. Still I want to use the receiver for movies and such. If I feed the DVR/BD to the TV first then ran a optical cable from the TV to receiver how much of a degrade if any in sound would I get. From what I understand the TV would not be able to transit 5.1 but it would do stereo but then would that work okay with my 3.0 setup ?
 
In a 5.1 format, the center channel carries voice. If you ignore this, you will get the left and right channels of the 5.1, but the dialog channel will be missing. Unless you have an AVR that can create a "phantom" center channel (like my Sony TA-N9000es) you cannot listen to a DVD or broadcast program (like from an antenna) in this arrangement and get the true sound of the 5.1. I realize you do not have surround speakers, so the only way to get dialogue back is to run the AVR in a 2 channel mode. DVDs can play in 2 channel, so that is your fix.

Or...buy your 3rd Pioneer SP-BS22-LP speaker and go with the 3 channel. Then you can run your DVD in the 5.1 mode, realizing that your 2 rear channels are not going to play.

Why not go all the way and get 3 more Pioneer speakers and have it all?
 
Yes, it would work fine as long as the TV will pass 5.1. You would still get 5.1 over optical but none of the fancy wrapper stuff like DTS-HD and the like.
 
Probably because it's one more speaker/wire and the benefit is questionable unless you're watching a movie. I find traditional Prologic "3 stereo" setups to sound weird with music because all the vocals are from the center speaker, it sort of makes the system sound like it's mono with no stereo imaging. However if you use Prologic II's music setting then it's better.
 
so let me get this right if i have a 3.0 set up and I want dialogue to go through the center speaker I have to set up the receiver to 5.1 correct ? but how do I know if my TV will pass to 5.1 if it doesn't it's probably just going to do a stereo and then the center speakers going to be worthless right ?
 
Does your manual have a section about speaker setup? There should be a setup option where you pick which speakers you have, the size, and the distance to the seating position. If you haven't already done it, you should have turned off the center, rear, and sub. That way the info from those channels(the rears and center, at least) will be sent to the front left/right speakers.
Honestly, it sounds like you have it setup for 5 channels, but are only running the front left/right, and you're missing out on a lot of dialog.
 
I know I'm not really answering the question, but my Fisher KX-200 is built for 3.0. It's called a "Stereo Master Control Amplifier" and has quite a unique wiring. It has L/R and a mono centre channel with its own adjustable level (Off, Low, Medium, High, Max). The L/R has a stereo dimension knob that allows you to control how hard the stereo panning is (all the way right is full stereo and all the way left is mono). In the instruction/owners manual they talk about large rooms where your speakers are 12' or more apart, so you can use a centre channel to fill the soundstage and create far more realism, or using it as a remote speaker location for another room.

http://www.hifiengine.com/library/fisher/kx-200.shtml

Personally, I run 2.1 using the centre channel for my sub. I also find once you start messing with the stereo dimension knob the soundstage shrinks very fast, wide open is best in my room at least.
 
so let me get this right if i have a 3.0 set up and I want dialogue to go through the center speaker I have to set up the receiver to 5.1 correct ? but how do I know if my TV will pass to 5.1 if it doesn't it's probably just going to do a stereo and then the center speakers going to be worthless right ?

If you have a modern LCD tv and you use an antenna, the TV will receive 5.1 broadcast from the antenna (usually prime times shows (CSI, ect.). If you have cable, most cable providers do not have enough bandwidth to send 5.1 audio, so that is probably going to be only 2 channel.

If you have dish, you may have 5.1 available to you and that should pass thru your TV, if you come out of your dish receiver with a digital signal to the TV audio in. Then the TV audio out has to be digital to the AVR.

I am using fiber-optical cable to pass my TV to the Sony preamp, because my cable uses HDMI and my Blu-ray player has HDMI and the only way I can get any signal to my Sony preamp is via S/PDIF (Sony/Philips digital interface). It actually does work, but I initially thought I'd have video to
audio synchronization problems.

I also would not recommend using 3.0 for playing any audio. It will F' up the soundstage and make the music one big blob.

I hate to push the issue, but you are kind of going against the grain on this whole 3.0 thing. If your going to listen to mostly music, then the center channel is a waste. Then you might as well forget 3.0 for movies and TV too. Just go with the audio outs on your DVD/BR player and on your cable/satellite box. Without surround speakers, your not going to get the whole effect from movies and TV anyway, so why bother.

Sorry to soapbox you on this one.
 
I just bought my first AV setup a receiver Yamaha RX-V375 and Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers.

When listening to TV shows or even a movie and music the voices seems shallow/weak.

So I've decided to get center speaker and that would complete my setup. In the receiver manual it talks about a two channel and then 2.1,3.1,5.1. I'm not going to buy a sub-woofer these bookshelf's I have plenty of bass.

Before I get the center speaker, is my receiver suppose to be setup in two channel stereo mode right ? Should I be using the standard or straight option ? Also is two channel stereo what I want to only ? Can I have Dolby digital but in two channel ? Is stereo the best I can get with a two channel setup ? What if I get a center which I'm pretty sure I'll get in the next couple of days, do I choose 3 channel stereo then ? does it open up diff options when having the 3.0 setup like I'm thinking of getting ?

so let me get this right if i have a 3.0 set up and I want dialogue to go through the center speaker I have to set up the receiver to 5.1 correct ? but how do I know if my TV will pass to 5.1 if it doesn't it's probably just going to do a stereo and then the center speakers going to be worthless right ?

If you want to run a 3.0 setup then that is how you configure the receiver; front left, front right, and center. This should be in the setup.

Since you are not running a sub, be sure the subwoofer selection is set to "no" or "off" of whatever means you are not using a sub.

Since you have shut the sub off, the front/main speakers should have changed to "Large". Check to be sure that's how they're set up.

The center channel could be set to small, then any bass going there that's below the high pass filter setting (probably 80 to 120Hz default) will be redirected to the Large speakers, in this case your fronts. You could try the center set to large too. Which ever you like best, I reckon.

Shows coming in on a digital feed with center channel content will provide center channel activity. For shows that don't, or for any source actually, engage Dolby Pro Logic II and it will create center channel content from the front left and front right content.

Dolby Pro Logic II has movie, music, and perhaps game mode or something like that. Movie mode puts a stronger emphasis on center channel content. Music mode also provides center channel content but more subtly. I've never messed around with game mode. Music mode also has some settings where you can tailor how much center activity, and some other parameters.

It's easy to do what you want. No problems at all to set up 3.0 and get center content with all sources (that you want to).
 
so let me get this right if i have a 3.0 set up and I want dialogue to go through the center speaker I have to set up the receiver to 5.1 correct ? but how do I know if my TV will pass to 5.1 if it doesn't it's probably just going to do a stereo and then the center speakers going to be worthless right ?
If you are using HDMI from your TV, you should be passing 5.1 to your receiver. As has been mentioned, use the 5.1 surround setting on your receiver but configure it for the speakers you have. Turn off the sub, rear surrounds, center etc that you are not using. If you have not used the YPAO setup with the microphone, try it. I know the Yamaha manual is a pain on disc but go through it and things you are being told will start to be clearer. For full enjoyment, work your way up to 5.1 surround, but there is no reason you can not get good sound with just 2 speakers.
 
Back
Top Bottom