HELP With Choosing A DAC

I'm in the same boat as the OP, I am also in the market for a DAC. My budget may be a little higher, but not by much. I had considered this: http://www.kingrex.com/productimg.aspx?id=22
But I don't know that it's that much different from the Dragon doodad that was mentioned a couple of pages ago. I heard a Matrix Mini at the fest, and was fairly satisfied with that, but I did want something that would go up to 24/196 through USB, but I do have a 3.5 glass to Toslink coming out of my XPS laptop, and according to the sound settings, I can set my output to that.

I had a couple of questions as well, if you guys don't mind me jumping in here on this thread....
1. I have seen quite a few DAC's with BNC outputs, what's up with that? I'm guessing they might connect to some equipment I can't afford, or would it be more for a commercial application.
2. In looking at the nudies of most of the DAC's here, it just doesn't seem like there's that much to them, compared to say... the MDHT Havana or Paridisea. Is that because they are more in the non-upsampling tube category?
3. Is there are way to search for DAC's on AK? I've tried with "DAC", Dac, "USB+DAC" to no avail. I guess it's a four character min in the Boolean operators?
Thanks so much for any insight on my hodge-podge of questions. Jon
 
How about you scroll to page 4 and 25 in their datasheet and read about output impedance?

At THD+N= -93dB (15 bit performance) is nothing spectacular. Regardless what people paid to say differently say. Or they are just taken by the "32 bit" marketing crap.
I see that you have audio-gd Ref 5 (4xPCM1704) as DAC... Can't belive that you can even compare that with the cheap toy from above.

I understand what you're saying about the specs... but that doesn't change the fact that several manufacturers have designed DACs using this chip, in accordance with the TI spec sheet with NO output stage/opamps, and they perform perfectly well. I haven't heard the musiland DAC but I have heard the JKDAC32 as mentioned earlier and it is very very good for the money with excellent sonic performance. If there was some fundamental issue with implementing the chip in this way, surely there would have been widespread issues by now? A JKDAC32 was sent around on a tour of Australia recently, and nobody had issues running this DAC on a wide variety of systems (from mild to high-end stuff).

That's my beef here... asserting that something is wrong or can't work when there are demonstrated examples of it working just fine, in accordance with TI's own implementation recommendations.

And for the record, I haven't once tried to compare the Musiland DAC to my own DAC... it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand as the PCM1704UKs do require an output stage (which is 100% discrete in this instance, no opamps here).
 
I'm in the same boat as the OP, I am also in the market for a DAC. My budget may be a little higher, but not by much. I had considered this: http://www.kingrex.com/productimg.aspx?id=22
But I don't know that it's that much different from the Dragon doodad that was mentioned a couple of pages ago. I heard a Matrix Mini at the fest, and was fairly satisfied with that, but I did want something that would go up to 24/196 through USB, but I do have a 3.5 glass to Toslink coming out of my XPS laptop, and according to the sound settings, I can set my output to that.

I had a couple of questions as well, if you guys don't mind me jumping in here on this thread....
1. I have seen quite a few DAC's with BNC outputs, what's up with that? I'm guessing they might connect to some equipment I can't afford, or would it be more for a commercial application.
2. In looking at the nudies of most of the DAC's here, it just doesn't seem like there's that much to them, compared to say... the MDHT Havana or Paridisea. Is that because they are more in the non-upsampling tube category?
3. Is there are way to search for DAC's on AK? I've tried with "DAC", Dac, "USB+DAC" to no avail. I guess it's a four character min in the Boolean operators?
Thanks so much for any insight on my hodge-podge of questions. Jon

Jon, what's your exact budget?

If you can stretch it, the audio-gd NFB3.1/3.2 is an excellent entry-level DAC. If you have any intention of using USB via PC, the 3.2 is the way to go (asynchronous USB). Fully discrete analogue stages. I had the NFB3 (earlier version) and it was fantastic! I did order the DIR9001 receiver board though (24/96 vs 24/192 for the WM8805) as the DIR9001 offered slightly greater resolution and less colouration.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB3-2011/NFB3.1EN.htm

NFB3-4.JPG


I'm also a big fan of the Schiit Bifrost. Lovely DAC!
 
Thanks for the info guys! My budget is roughly $500. I'm selling my Yammy M2 amp, to make room and $ for a DAC. I'll look in to this audio-gd NFB3.1-2, I had initially had my heart set on USB capabilities, but since my laptop (which will be my main source) has the Toslink out, it's not a deal-breaker. I suppose if I ever get around to building a music server, it may be needed then, but I've never been known for over-planning.

I have also heard good things about the Emotiva XDA-1, for an entry level model. Certainly a good price for something with a remote...
 
I have also heard good things about the Emotiva XDA-1, for an entry level model. Certainly a good price for something with a remote...

I'll stick to my guns and second that.

In a market this dynamic, I advocate buying good performance and getting acclimated to the medium and all it's tricks and tips, rather than buying higher performance that may be entry level in a short time for 2-3x the price.

The cutting edge cuts too deep into my wallet :D :yes:
 
Thanks for the info guys! My budget is roughly $500. I'm selling my Yammy M2 amp, to make room and $ for a DAC. I'll look in to this audio-gd NFB3.1-2, I had initially had my heart set on USB capabilities, but since my laptop (which will be my main source) has the Toslink out, it's not a deal-breaker. I suppose if I ever get around to building a music server, it may be needed then, but I've never been known for over-planning.

I have also heard good things about the Emotiva XDA-1, for an entry level model. Certainly a good price for something with a remote...

I owned an XDA-1 for a little while and it is quite the bargain at the current run-out price. However, it's USB implementation is a bit lacking IMHO. The Schiit Bifrost with the optional asynch USB card would be a better bet if you are considering a USB connection, or likewise the NFB3.2 with the new asynch chip (assuming that your laptop operating system is compatible with the necessary USB asynch drivers).
 
I owned an XDA-1 for a little while and it is quite the bargain at the current run-out price. However, it's USB implementation is a bit lacking IMHO. The Schiit Bifrost with the optional asynch USB card would be a better bet if you are considering a USB connection, or likewise the NFB3.2 with the new asynch chip (assuming that your laptop operating system is compatible with the necessary USB asynch drivers).

I've been reading great reviews on the Bifrost. Same thing with the AUDIOgd and Emotiva models. It really comes down to the type/s of connection/s you'll be using. If you're a USB-only person, check out HRT. But if you have/need multiple connection-options, look at the others I mentioned (but also remember that some multi-connection DAC's only handle 16/44 through USB... or something less than 24/96... Check the specs for each connection to be sure).

I'm extremely-pleased with my MSII. I enjoy it every night. So-musical.... I have a vintage system, and the MSII was a perfect fit. I love the imaging. I have a vinyl-rip of the UK plum "Fragile" LP, and I always thought it sounded distorted in a few spots (so I kind of avoided it and looked for a better version), but now it's clear as a bell and as analog-sounding as ever. And smooth. It's been that way with a lot of recordings lately.
 
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Indeed... the MSII is a nice device. I help a friend source a MSII+ for his system and it sounds very good for the money. He particularly likes the fact that it is USB powered, so there's no extra switch to reach for after firing up his PC.

Both the Bifrost and audio-gd NFB3.2 are excellent options for someone wanting the versatility of inputs as you mention, along with high-quality asynch USB.
 
Indeed... the MSII is a nice device. I help a friend source a MSII+ for his system and it sounds very good for the money. He particularly likes the fact that it is USB powered, so there's no extra switch to reach for after firing up his PC.

Both the Bifrost and audio-gd NFB3.2 are excellent options for someone wanting the versatility of inputs as you mention, along with high-quality asynch USB.

Yeah, asynchronous-USB has come a long way in a short time, which is great for people like me who are on a budget, and it is nice not having to switch it on and off (I just leave it plugged into an external USB hub that's always connected to my laptop, and it turns on with my computer... I use it constantly though... Great background for web-surfing). I may upgrade to an even-nicer one at some point, but I'm good for a DAC until after I refurb a couple things. I'm really-getting close to the sound I'm looking for with digital though. Just a rough edge or two. I used to curse digital, but now I see it's potential.
 
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I just got a Music Streamer II+ which is a hiar above your price point. The Music Streamer II is well within your budget, although I have not heard it personally. Gotta say that it is the coolest piece I have added to my system in awhile.
 
When I first started looking in to the DAC racket, which was at the fest, I plugged in to X25's Mini Matrix, and I was impressed when we A/B'd it and his Phillips 1000 (I think), very little difference between CD quality of it and the USB. Then I noticed that it would only do 44Khz, which alarmed me at first, because I have over a TB (roughly 120,000 songs) in digital format. Included in this collection is around 300 Reference rips, MFSL, DCC, SACD, I even have a 4.5GB rip of the last Japanese Pressing of DSOTM.

BTW, a BIG SHOUTOUT to X25, for basically giving me free reign to play around with his VERY impressive modestly priced system.

After I got home, I was looking on Agon, and saw a high end glass to Toslink connector, which reminded me that I have multiple outputs on my laptop.
For the techie's out there:
It's a Dell XPS L702x, which has an Intel Core i7 2760q processor, 8GB of RAM (upgradeable to 16GB) and an arsenal of outputs: HDMI, 3.5mm stereo, 3.5 S/PDIF (for which cables are available to convert to Toslink, and Optical).

So, that being said, I am not limited to USB. The only reason I did the USB at the Fest was that I simply forgot to bring my optical adapter cable.

I am in a very small space presently, and until I finish school, tentatively about this time next year, by the time I finish my current degree and get the CTS certifications I am hoping for. This is my current setup: Nikko Beta 50II preamp, Rotel RX-1000 as an amp, which is feeding my Mission MX2's, but for "critical listening" I'm rotating out the Missions with B&W Matrix 805's, and an MC2100, and have been considering bi-amping with both amps, but I don't know which would have the better synergy with Highs, and vice versa. Also, I'm guessing that mix and matching amps for bi-amping would be frowned upon by some. Lastly, I'm using a Monster HTS-3500 to handle the power.

So, that's all the info on my end, if that helps anyone steer me towards something that might work best with what I've got. I don't know if there is any kind of synergy that exists between components, like that I've seen between amps and speakers.
 
When I first started looking in to the DAC racket, which was at the fest, I plugged in to X25's Mini Matrix, and I was impressed when we A/B'd it and his Phillips 1000 (I think), very little difference between CD quality of it and the USB. Then I noticed that it would only do 44Khz, which alarmed me at first, because I have over a TB (roughly 120,000 songs) in digital format. Included in this collection is around 300 Reference rips, MFSL, DCC, SACD, I even have a 4.5GB rip of the last Japanese Pressing of DSOTM.

BTW, a BIG SHOUTOUT to X25, for basically giving me free reign to play around with his VERY impressive modestly priced system.

After I got home, I was looking on Agon, and saw a high end glass to Toslink connector, which reminded me that I have multiple outputs on my laptop.
For the techie's out there:
It's a Dell XPS L702x, which has an Intel Core i7 2760q processor, 8GB of RAM (upgradeable to 16GB) and an arsenal of outputs: HDMI, 3.5mm stereo, 3.5 S/PDIF (for which cables are available to convert to Toslink, and Optical).

So, that being said, I am not limited to USB. The only reason I did the USB at the Fest was that I simply forgot to bring my optical adapter cable.

I am in a very small space presently, and until I finish school, tentatively about this time next year, by the time I finish my current degree and get the CTS certifications I am hoping for. This is my current setup: Nikko Beta 50II preamp, Rotel RX-1000 as an amp, which is feeding my Mission MX2's, but for "critical listening" I'm rotating out the Missions with B&W Matrix 805's, and an MC2100, and have been considering bi-amping with both amps, but I don't know which would have the better synergy with Highs, and vice versa. Also, I'm guessing that mix and matching amps for bi-amping would be frowned upon by some. Lastly, I'm using a Monster HTS-3500 to handle the power.

So, that's all the info on my end, if that helps anyone steer me towards something that might work best with what I've got. I don't know if there is any kind of synergy that exists between components, like that I've seen between amps and speakers.

Since you have multiple connections, you have a lot of choices, although I wouldn't view all USB-only DAC's as being inferior in sound to something with more connection options. I would just read what you can on each of the DAC's mentioned here, read as many reviews, head-fi comparisons, and AK threads as possible. Eventually you'll have an idea of each DAC's sonic-signature, and you can pick the one that matches your system's sonic-signature). I can recommend mine all day long, but that won't do you any good unless you're planning on running it through a USB line.

Have to say though, lately I've been enjoying digital to a point I never thought was possible. Don't think I've ever been this much into listening to music in my life. The DAC/vintage stereo system combo is working out well. I still get the character of my vintage gear, but with great clarity. Just no more grain (Speaking of which, I didn't get a tube-DAC because I figured my system was warm-enough... I figure a more-neutral DAC might work better with my kind of setup, but YMMV).

Like you, I have a bunch of MFSL, DCC/AF-type stuff, plus a ton of vinyl-rips. To me, that's half the battle towards good sound. The 1st-pressing Japanese LP of "Dark Side Of The Moon" is my favorite version. I don't know WHY it's so-good, but it is despite the fact that an inferior tape was probably used. I have hi-rez and redbook rips of that one. Completely-unrelated, but the UK 1st-pressing LP of the "Santana" debut is so-much-better than the US version (Listening to a vinyl-rip of it now... The US LP has anemic bass and weak dynamics, but the UK LP has everything the US LP is missing... It's perfect... In fact, the UK LP's of "Santana", "Abraxas", and "Santana III" are all tops... I don't own the UK LP, but I do own a copy of the Dutch "Santana" LP which I think uses the same mastering).

By the way, I had heard that X25 had a really-nice system. That Matrix Mini DAC is a nice-looking unit, especially-considering the price ($345 on Fleaspray). Not sure about the sound or the specs, but it definitely has the look of much-more-expensive DACs (Reminds me of the Bel Canto stuff). Might be a good one for you if you're looking to connect via Toslink rather than USB. Specs look similar to the HRT MSII+, give or take (which is the same price).
 
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Having owned a few DAC's, I can only offer the caveat that not all are created equally and that differences in design translate into perceptibly disparate listening experiences. Quality in workmanship do vary: there's a lot of really well made stuff out there, but there's plenty of dreck to go around. Open the thing up and take a look. Also, there are as many ways to build a DAC as there are to skin a cat. There are oversampling DAC's, non-oversampling DAC's, tube-loaded DAC's, non tube-loaded DAC's, and so on. Each has their own virtue, but each has their own drawback.

Huh. You thought this'd be easy, eh?
 
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