AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
What Dave says.
Go back and read the beginning pages of this thread to see what all was involved in accomplishing the Indignia design. It is specific to the particular drivers we ultimately selected, and I believe that one was considered.... :yes:
Just back from another long weekend at a friend's place in rural northern Wisconsin. Beautiful weather and at least one late night under the stars enjoying my friend's Indignias powered by his lowly $15 Accurian. Background vocals provided free of charge by the coyotes.
I had the speakers 15' apart or so sitting on swiveling bar stools about 3' in front of an open 2 car garage hooked to my old Radio Shack CD-3400 and an IPOD hooked up with a docking port jack (essential for IPOD listening, IMO).
Absolutely stunning sound. A couple of cable changes were readily discernable.
A co-reveler with great ears (and Magnepan MG-20s) was suitably impressed and suggested they are the new Large Advents, only better sounding. Same great bass but smoother highs.
Wish y'all could have heard 'em.
I had the speakers 15' apart or so sitting on swiveling bar stools about 3' in front of an open 2 car garage hooked to my old Radio Shack CD-3400 and an IPOD hooked up with a docking port jack (essential for IPOD listening, IMO).
Absolutely stunning sound. A couple of cable changes were readily discernable.
A co-reveler with great ears (and Magnepan MG-20s) was suitably impressed and suggested they are the new Large Advents, only better sounding. Same great bass but smoother highs.
Wish y'all could have heard 'em.
YamahaFreak
Super Member
Wisconsin, eh? They might have been wolves. :thmbsp:
They could have been wolves, but the yelps were sometimes punctuated by the "quintessential coyote yodel."
Regardless, as three former college roommates we were really enjoying the Indignias playing music we enjoyed lots of years ago in college. They really sound so much better than they should given the fact that I made the particular pair we were listening to.
BTW, the biggest hit of the night was King Crimson, Islands (but that dates us pretty well).
Regardless, as three former college roommates we were really enjoying the Indignias playing music we enjoyed lots of years ago in college. They really sound so much better than they should given the fact that I made the particular pair we were listening to.
BTW, the biggest hit of the night was King Crimson, Islands (but that dates us pretty well).
YamahaFreak
Super Member
MasterZ
Member
Question re: Original Insignia cabs.
Ok, I've read most of the threads about the Indignias and I like the look of the original insignia cabs. I would like to tackle a DIY job and these look like a great platform. The problem is that my woodworking skills are questionable and the parts express curved cabs blow my budget.(at $150ish a pair.)
Here's my question, has anybody used the original Insignia cabs, took off the front and paired it with the parts express baffles? Would they fit?
The dimensions are close but I'd like to be certain. If I could buy the OEM Insignias and use the cabs, it could cut the cabinet cost by almost half.(compared to PE versions, the insignias are on sale for around $75 a pair.)
Let me know if anyone has tried this I want to get cracking on this project!
Paul Z.
Ok, I've read most of the threads about the Indignias and I like the look of the original insignia cabs. I would like to tackle a DIY job and these look like a great platform. The problem is that my woodworking skills are questionable and the parts express curved cabs blow my budget.(at $150ish a pair.)
Here's my question, has anybody used the original Insignia cabs, took off the front and paired it with the parts express baffles? Would they fit?
The dimensions are close but I'd like to be certain. If I could buy the OEM Insignias and use the cabs, it could cut the cabinet cost by almost half.(compared to PE versions, the insignias are on sale for around $75 a pair.)
Let me know if anyone has tried this I want to get cracking on this project!
Paul Z.
Hi, Paul,
If you review the several Insignia "upgrade" projects in different forums online, you'll find that their cabinet construction is a major issue, and would be so even if the Indignia components fit.
Let me suggest this: Send RayW a PM and ask if he'll mill you a pair of PE baffles for mounting the components. You can order those separately and have them shipped directly to him. The grilles are available, too.
Then, it's a simple task to build a box to fit behind them, or cut them into the face of any similar-size boxes of $5 speakers from the thrift store, and you can upgrade to the real deal whenever your budget might allow. :thmbsp:
I've advocated this "economy" approach from the very outset here; the same will work for building them into shelves or entertainment centers, etc., but nobody's actually done it yet....
greenmark59
Can ya' hear that?
Hi, Paul,
If you review the several Insignia "upgrade" projects in different forums online, you'll find that their cabinet construction is a major issue, and would be so even if the Indignia components fit.
Let me suggest this: Send RayW a PM and ask if he'll mill you a pair of PE baffles for mounting the components. You can order those separately and have them shipped directly to him. The grilles are available, too.
Then, it's a simple task to build a box to fit behind them, or cut them into the face of any similar-size boxes of $5 speakers from the thrift store, and you can upgrade to the real deal whenever your budget might allow. :thmbsp:
I've advocated this "economy" approach from the very outset here; the same will work for building them into shelves or entertainment centers, etc., but nobody's actually done it yet....
That's a great idea and I have done this very thing for other speakers that I have built and basically have made a less expensive working prototype and if I really want to make them look "purty" I have time to save up for great looking boxes. Part of this hobby is remembering that it is a process and we don't always get to the final stage all in one step - sometimes we do, but other times we don't. Just enjoy the journey
Of course you advocate it. You're not the one up to your eyeballs in sawdust and circle cutouts!
HA!Of course you advocate it. You're not the one up to your eyeballs in sawdust and circle cutouts!
You and Newman gonna have a shootout as to who can build the coolest speaker thingy with them cutouts.
[If past history is any indication, it'll happen around Secret Santa time....
]
a little off center?
Ok, here's one you've all been waiting for. Ok, some of you have expressed interest in. Would you believe 2 or 3 people asked about? (my best Maxwell Smart)
Anyway, a few people asked about a matching center channel for the Indignias and figuring I need a new one anyway I went ahead and played around. Here's what I came up with. Attached pics show completed speaker (with original dust and bad lighting), XO schematic, XO picture, and measured far field response.
The drivers are Dayton DA135-8 5 1/4" aluminum cone mid/woof x2 and ND28F-6 1 1/8" soft dome neo tweeter with small faceplate. Box is .5ft^3 with 2 ports 1.5" diameter x 6 1/8" long. My inside dimensions are 7"H x 15"W x 9"D with a single, holey (not holy) brace from top to bottom.
Now a little theory on the design...a "toppled MTM" is generally a bad idea for a center channel. They look cool and are symmetric but tend to have a fairly narrow main lobe and fall off quickly after that. In a standing MTM that's good. It takes the ceiling and floor out of the equation. When toppled, that means you get a narrow beam horizontally so if you're not right in front of it you don't get the right sound. There are ways around this. You can drop the XO point to where the woofer seperation is less than the XO wavelength. This means the woofers will radiate as a point source (more or less). However, that means using a tweeter that can go really low (500Hz or below). Another way is the way I went, move the tweeter so that you can get the woofers closer. That way the XO doesn't have to be as low. I didn't measure the actual XO point but it's around 2kHz on this one.
The XO is built on a PE stock 2-way, 2nd order crossover board. I did that to make sure it would work ok (no reason it shouldn't) because some folks don't like building their own or doing point-to-point. I went with cheap inductors because this is a budget design to go with the Indignias.
A note on the box. I built my own. I usually do. My baffle is 16.5" wide (outside). I've layed the parts out on a stock PE baffle and, while it's tight, it will all fit. So you could do this with a PE .5ft^3 box and baffle. If I get free time and a hankering for some puzzle work I'll lay it out and take all the measurements and post them here. However, as of now you're on your own.
Now, for anyone playing at home, here's a BOM with PE numbers for you:
Woofer 295-330 x2
tweeter 275-040
c1 027-426
L1 255-034
c2 027-430
L2 255-036
XO board 260-120
The ports are 1.5" PVC just like the Indignias.
I think that covers everything. If I missed something, let me know. I'll see about getting a PE baffle layout in the not-too-distant future.
Enjoy,
Ray
Ok, here's one you've all been waiting for. Ok, some of you have expressed interest in. Would you believe 2 or 3 people asked about? (my best Maxwell Smart)
Anyway, a few people asked about a matching center channel for the Indignias and figuring I need a new one anyway I went ahead and played around. Here's what I came up with. Attached pics show completed speaker (with original dust and bad lighting
), XO schematic, XO picture, and measured far field response.The drivers are Dayton DA135-8 5 1/4" aluminum cone mid/woof x2 and ND28F-6 1 1/8" soft dome neo tweeter with small faceplate. Box is .5ft^3 with 2 ports 1.5" diameter x 6 1/8" long. My inside dimensions are 7"H x 15"W x 9"D with a single, holey (not holy) brace from top to bottom.
Now a little theory on the design...a "toppled MTM" is generally a bad idea for a center channel. They look cool and are symmetric but tend to have a fairly narrow main lobe and fall off quickly after that. In a standing MTM that's good. It takes the ceiling and floor out of the equation. When toppled, that means you get a narrow beam horizontally so if you're not right in front of it you don't get the right sound. There are ways around this. You can drop the XO point to where the woofer seperation is less than the XO wavelength. This means the woofers will radiate as a point source (more or less). However, that means using a tweeter that can go really low (500Hz or below). Another way is the way I went, move the tweeter so that you can get the woofers closer. That way the XO doesn't have to be as low. I didn't measure the actual XO point but it's around 2kHz on this one.
The XO is built on a PE stock 2-way, 2nd order crossover board. I did that to make sure it would work ok (no reason it shouldn't) because some folks don't like building their own or doing point-to-point. I went with cheap inductors because this is a budget design to go with the Indignias.
A note on the box. I built my own. I usually do. My baffle is 16.5" wide (outside). I've layed the parts out on a stock PE baffle and, while it's tight, it will all fit. So you could do this with a PE .5ft^3 box and baffle. If I get free time and a hankering for some puzzle work I'll lay it out and take all the measurements and post them here. However, as of now you're on your own.
Now, for anyone playing at home, here's a BOM with PE numbers for you:
Woofer 295-330 x2
tweeter 275-040
c1 027-426
L1 255-034
c2 027-430
L2 255-036
XO board 260-120
The ports are 1.5" PVC just like the Indignias.
I think that covers everything. If I missed something, let me know. I'll see about getting a PE baffle layout in the not-too-distant future.
Enjoy,
Ray
Attachments
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Something Zilch pointed out to me in a PM...it would be pretty easy to adapt this to a surround speaker using the woofer and tweeter from the center channel. Cut the box in half and use the PE .25ft^3 box, use only 1 port, double inductor L2 (1mH), and halve capacitor C2 (6uF), and you should be there. The only part remaining would be to pad down the tweeter to account for only 1 woofer. It should be a 3dB (2ohm series, 15ohm parallel will get you close) pad unless my brain isn't in gear (wouldn't bet against that one).
Thanks.
Life is all about choice, Bob.
My/our thought was the former, however if you're strapped for cash or space you might try the latter. I guess we need to put together an Insubnia for a true Indignia HTIB (Zilch coined the term). Looks like a Dayton SD270-88 and 70W plate amp could be had for about $105. I should point out that the "1/2 center channel" (Mini-dignia?) hasn't been built yet. It's a theoretical beast right now. I may have to order up some parts and try it out soon. Of course there are at least 3 projects in front of that one.
Ray
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