My Dual 1249 Fix!

himm37

himm37

Well-Known Member
After cleaning and re-lubing a very nice 1249, I had no tone-arm movement and remembered a thread about the clutch pad issue. Seth,(forever analog) answered a question I had to weather that problem pertained to 1249's, it does!

Before I started to fabricate parts, I really wanted to know if everything else was OK on this unit, so I thought of a temp fix. I came up with the idea of putting a piece of shrink wrap over the shaft where the pad belongs. IT WORKED! Notice how the wrap fit nearly perfect over the big part of the shaft, and shrunk way down around the pin section:

dualfix.1.JPG


This got me thinking about using this method for a permanent fix. Here's what I did. I removed the section of now shrunk wrap, and used it to cut a new piece the correct length. I slid it over the pin, and began to fill with rubber cement. I put some on the inside of the tube first, as it fit snugly on the shaft. I did NOT shrink it yet. Here's what that looked like:

dualfix.2.JPG


Here's how it looked when dry, still NOT shrunk:

dualfix.3.JPG


Here's what it looks like finished, notice how the wrap closed around the hardened cement:

dualfix.4.JPG


The table is working perfect now, and I THINK this fix should last. The shrunk tubing is fairly stiff, and the cured rubber gives support and grip. I don't know if other models are exact or similar for this to work on, If anyone tries it ,let me know!
 
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Frankly, I'm impressed. I hope this lasts a good long time. I'll be interested to know. Nice work.
Tom
 
I had the clutch pad issue on a 1225. Here's how I fixed it:
the insulation on Monster 16 gauge speaker wire has an ID just smaller than the pin on the Dual. I cut off a small bushing of the insulation and fitted it over the pin with about 1/64 of an inch overhanging the end of the pin. The insulation is sufficiently soft to create the necessary friction, it was cheap and readily available. The 'table has functioned fine ever since.

I grant that it's neither pretty nor elegant, but it's functional and practically free.
 
Ingenious fix. What is the diameter of the shrink wrap you use? ( before it is heated) Thanks . Norm
 
If I am observing the pics correctly, is the shrink wrap encasing the clutch tip pin as well as it's support tube? If so, it's defeating the fact that the clutch tip is spring loaded inside the support tube in order to smooth out arm movements and prevent undulations as the arm is moved into position. I would think that while auto functions could work properly, they would be jerky in their applications.
 
bohhey said:
If I am observing the pics correctly, is the shrink wrap encasing the clutch tip pin as well as it's support tube? If so, it's defeating the fact that the clutch tip is spring loaded inside the support tube in order to smooth out arm movements and prevent undulations as the arm is moved into position. I would think that while auto functions could work properly, they would be jerky in their applications.
Click to expand...

First of all thanks for getting these pics up again himm37! I went to fix this and looked for your pics and sadly they were gone. When Bohhey said the pin was spring loaded it confused the Hell out of me, as this model 1249 has a stiff pin and no spring. I tried your fix and tried the sleeve of insulation fix and it works and doesn't work. I have a few problems and my German Ser Man is no help.
First I don't where the initial setting "Lift" knob should be, Second "Lift Pin" that raises the TA has a knurled base that screws. Is this an adjustment or a cap for the reservior?

The last problem is the copper guide seen by the Lube Arrow #8 binds (The pin on the TA base doesn't clear it) when the tone arm cycles and exits and enters the opening it's fine clearing side to side. Also the Cam Lever will only return the arm about 2/3rds of the way back to the rest. It has me baffled.
 

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  • 1249 Under Tonearm.jpg
    1249 Under Tonearm.jpg
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The toughest two Duals to diagnose and repair:

1. 1st design 1219 (S/N < 141,000)
2. 1249

I know that's no help, but more as a word to the wise - unless you are well versed in these, it's not smart to tear into them. It's real easy to kill it for good.
 
bohhey said:
The toughest two Duals to diagnose and repair:

1. 1st design 1219 (S/N < 141,000)
2. 1249

I know that's no help, but more as a word to the wise - unless you are well versed in these, it's not smart to tear into them. It's real easy to kill it for good.
Click to expand...

Understood. With that being said, I have 10 or 15 invested in this TT and good mechanical skills so it has become a challenge. Just seeing a picture helps tremendously. That's why I was so happy to see himm37 put his pics back up. I will keep on trying and I haven't done anything that cannnot be undone easily.
 
Bohhey is correct. The pin that part #223777 goes on is spring-loaded. The construction of cement and shrink tubing you have assumes a fixed shaft. I have encountered instances where the spring-loaded pin is frozen. Over time, this can cause the metal plate that everything is mounted on at the base of the arm to bend, since the whole plate must yield, and not just the pin.

#223777 is currently available from --

http://www.all-electronics.com/

Fred
 
bohhey said:
"Bohhey is correct."

Thanks Fred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now all you have to do is tell my wife!!
Click to expand...

I don't mean to argue, but either I am missing pieces or I have two similar looking non-spring loaded studs mounted on that plate and in himm37's 3rd pic you can see a similar one peeking out in the bottom right. I see nothing spring loaded on that shaft with the larger collar on the bottom. Maybe I am blind.
 
That pin that you are referring to is the record size indexing stop pin when using auto start. Now, about the spring loaded pins - no - you will not see a spring. On the opposite side of the pictured plate is mounted a leaf spring that grabs the end of the pin as it protrudes from that side.

It's spring loaded - trust me - they all are of this design.
 
I found one thread that suggested putting a drop of hot melt glue on the tip of the pin. Gave that a try on my 1246, and the auto-return now works. Not sure how long it'll last, but it's not like the fix costs a lot. :)
 
I am sorry for being obtuse, but on a bright note everything works! I used a stupid blob of hot glue. I know it's not permanent, but at least I can tweak it and dial it in. Unbelievable that the simplest solution works.
 
Actually sounds like a really good fix! On the tip of the glue blob, I'd file it smooth for uniform contact with the main cam lever.
 
Sorry about the pics, little late on the hosting bill!

I've been meaning to post an update. It has been working well for a while now, but not perfect. I also don't think it will work with the multi play spindle, but that doesn't concern me, I was mainly looking for it to auto-return, I would even settle for auto lift!

I noticed that the pin was spring loaded, but assumed it was to make up for the height difference when the arm is put into the multi-play mode. PLEASE listen to those who know more then me about this, and/or consider it a temporary patch, especially if the feeling is it could cause damage.

Fred, is that part # for 1249's only, or does it fit other models? I took a quick look under a couple of other 1200 series I have and noticed the arm that the pad rides on is metal on those, not plastic like the 1249.
 
Plastic clutch tip fits all 12XX idlers except 1209, 1211, 1212, 1214, 1215, 1215-S, 1216. Same for all. if it's "riding on metal", it because the plastic tip has self-destructed.
 
scootchu said:
I am sorry for being obtuse, but on a bright note everything works! I used a stupid blob of hot glue. I know it's not permanent, but at least I can tweak it and dial it in. Unbelievable that the simplest solution works.
Click to expand...

I had actually thought about that when I was thinking about my fix. I was concerned that was was so little "depth" that it wouldn't hold on the tip only. If it appears to work, you may want to try using epoxy instead of hot glue. Might even be able to make a little mold that can be filled, placed over the tip and removed when cured.

I think my thinking along these lines comes from the fact that my brother is a Cad/Cam engineer, Injection mold designer. Who knows, if there is enough demand for this and other small parts, I believe that there are small "prototype" machines that would be perfect for small runs, would have to overcome the cost of building the mold however!
 
Got it all buttoned up last night and did a test and she's working fine. The only problem is I cannot get the set down point anymore to the out side of the record. It currently comes down "right at" the first groove" The adjustment screw won't turn anymore clockwise. It's tight to begin with I don't want to force it. Is this screw just an oblong cam that spins or does it actually thread into the lever? If it's the latter then maybe I have tightened it and should back it off and adjust it going backwards?
 
The set down adjustment screw is difficult to turn by design - that way it holds it's setting. It also has no stop. Keep turning until you get to the correct spot. As you adjust, if the tonearm starts to go back in without getting to the desired point, you have other issues - the bottom plate that the tonearm is fastened to needs adjustment. Again, this is a tough table to get right......
 
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