nickrobotron
una bella tazza di caffe
What is your favorite and why? Any we should avoid? There's so many! I don't even know where to start. Some pics would be awesome too.
Nick
Nick
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What is your favorite Dual turntable?
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505. Highly recommended, IME. Better tone arm than any other Dual, IMHO, and NO CHANGER MECHANISM to screw up.
Also, it was good enough to make it into the Stereophile Recommended Components list ("Budget" category, IIRC), for several years in the mid '80s. Not much stuff can say that!
Though some may recoil in horror at my next statement... STAY AWAY from the 1229s. Too complicated of a mechanism, and the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism simply gets brittle (it's plastic
), cracks, and falls apart. Table's useless once that happens... you can, of course, kludge it back into working, but there's very little chance you'll ever get the cartridge tracking geometry right afterwards...
Also, I'm starting to see motor death on the 604s (direct-drive). The motors on those have microprocessors, which die... and have NO ready replacement parts available OF ANY SORT. Caveat emptor!
Regards,
Gordon.
Also, it was good enough to make it into the Stereophile Recommended Components list ("Budget" category, IIRC), for several years in the mid '80s. Not much stuff can say that!
Though some may recoil in horror at my next statement... STAY AWAY from the 1229s. Too complicated of a mechanism, and the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism simply gets brittle (it's plastic
), cracks, and falls apart. Table's useless once that happens... you can, of course, kludge it back into working, but there's very little chance you'll ever get the cartridge tracking geometry right afterwards...Also, I'm starting to see motor death on the 604s (direct-drive). The motors on those have microprocessors, which die... and have NO ready replacement parts available OF ANY SORT. Caveat emptor!
Regards,
Gordon.
Manitoulin
A proud member of AK
Kind of a loaded question, as Dual TTs can serve different purposes. I have a 1218 for old stuff for e.g. I always like the looks of a 701. Never had one, though.
rocdad
Active Member
I have 1229 that I recently picked up. I have ordered the cartridge mount, so have not used it yet. My research shows that it is one of the most liked here. Reliability seemed to be the common thought. I'm sure others will chime in.
Dan
Edit: I just read Gordon's post. I am new to the Dual camp, so I am curious as to the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism. I don't even know what that is, so I will abide to his judgement.
Thanks
Dan
Edit: I just read Gordon's post. I am new to the Dual camp, so I am curious as to the two-position VTA cam-lever mechanism. I don't even know what that is, so I will abide to his judgement.
Thanks
I'd have to say the 741 because that's the one I have. The actual unit is superb but the suspension leaves something to be desired. The tone arm is similar to the 505 but a little more elaborate, with a counterweight that you can adjust for resonance. Works very well too. I just repaired a 505 for a friend. That's quite a nice table too. I used to have another Dual direct drive but I can't remember the model number. Must look around the net for it.
Bryan
Bryan
OvenMaster
Baby, you're my winterblue
I'm actually very happy with mine. It's considered a bottom-feeder for some reason, but the specs are actually decent. I'd get a 1264 if I needed to replace it, as I enjoy the stacking capability.
Tom
Tom
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
1219/1229 again the 'best' turntable seems to be the one that sold the most. All too often these 'best of' posts are skewed by this popularity. I had a 1219, fancy base and dustcover, my brother has the 1019 but we would never consider them the best duals. Sure best at the time when they were new but duals got better for a few more years, but I lost track of them as I was not in the market. I did like the looks of some of the single-play machines when they came out.
Rybeam
Super Member
My favorite Dual is the 1019. Why ? The 7.5 pound platter, a motor the size of a small fist, the almost total lack of plastic, real walnut veneer base with the wood sided dust cover using 3 pieces of Plexiglas with plenty of room to add mass, the manual / auto operation choice. Priceless, the look on visitors faces when they hear a 40 year old turntable prove that vinyl sounds better than CD's.
I also have an unmodified AR ES-1 and a Dual 1219, and believe me the 1019 sounds just as good as they do. The 1019 is usable classic IMO.
I also have an unmodified AR ES-1 and a Dual 1219, and believe me the 1019 sounds just as good as they do. The 1019 is usable classic IMO.
ekmanning5
Time has told me...
I have a 505 and a cs-607. The 505 is my old reliable. It has run forever and all I've ever done is replace the cartridge. The cs-607 I got nonworking for free, spent $100 to get it going, and am having problems with it again (it only plays one channel). If it's not an easy fix I'll have to decide if I want to keep it or eat it.
JoZmo
Super Member
Does anyone have an opinion about the 502? I have one that's not being used and was thinking of selling it, but if it's considered a decent table then I might reconsider.
I honestly can't remember my impressions of it when I used it many years ago and have been happy with the Denon I'm using now so I never put the Dual into service again.
I honestly can't remember my impressions of it when I used it many years ago and have been happy with the Denon I'm using now so I never put the Dual into service again.
I have been playing my 701 since I bought it new in Germany. It started life as a 220 volt and had it converted to 110 volt once back stateside. The 721 has a won high regard from me and is a great machine. The 1229 is excellent and once serviced and back to specs would be lovely to have. I have collected quite a few turntables because they are fun and enjoy listening to music. If I was going to focus on just one I think it would be worth seeking Bill Bohhey or Seth because of the love they have for a good Dual and many hours worth of fixing and tweaking them back to perfection. I would also add Fred Longsworth to that list he is in California and the other two are located in the mid-west and east. Duals home is in the Back Forest and a famed area for clock making and should you ever get a good look of the under workings of say a 701 it is a thing of great wonder and so well done.
ekmanning5 said:
I've got a CS 607 as well. Not a very robust motor on it, but the tonearm is the same as described above: ULM with an anti resonance adjustment. I'm using a thicker platter mat than the stock version, and added some damping to the inside of the table. Pretty decent sounding unit.
gonzp
Klipschophile
I have got a 1219 that I really like. I am going to upgrade the cartridge but, I don't quite know where to go. I was thinking if a Grado silver/gold or a Denon 103. I have got a Sota/Dynavector in my main rig that I like very well. My Dual is in the bedroom and I just dont want to over cartridge it. Anyone have experience with the Denon 103 on a dual table?
Anyways here is a very goos link to a good Dual website
http://dual-reference.com/
Anyways here is a very goos link to a good Dual website
http://dual-reference.com/
cubastreet
Fiend
gonzp said:
I have it's cousin the 110 (high output) and it sounds good on the dual. I prefer it to the ortofon OM30 it replaced - not quite the detailed highs of th e30, but overall pacier and more solid sound.
I didn't get the 103 as the compliance is so low and not really suited to lightweight arms. Even the 110 needs the extra weight of the balance plate to sound it's best, perhaps the 160 would be better still, but not available in Japan where I obught my 110.
soundoc03
Super Member
Don't even think about putting a Dl-103 on a 1219!
I have one mounted on a Michell Tecnoarm and it even should have more mass to it for a more perfect match. You are much better off with the high compliance MM cartridges such as Shures, Ortofon, or ADC. I have a TRX-1 on my 1219 and like it better than the V15-ll that originally came with it.
I have one mounted on a Michell Tecnoarm and it even should have more mass to it for a more perfect match. You are much better off with the high compliance MM cartridges such as Shures, Ortofon, or ADC. I have a TRX-1 on my 1219 and like it better than the V15-ll that originally came with it.
Fernando
Active Member
I recently ordered some reprints of old Julian Hirsch Stereo Review lab tests of some turntables. The results were rather interesting. Given the span in years and the changes in test methods it was difficult to compare one to another but the ARLL weighted rumble was one constant test throughout. The results were:
Dual CS506 -56 dB
Dual 1229 -56 dB
Dual CS5000 -59 dB
Thorens TD160C -60.5 dB
Dual 510 -61.5 dB
Dual 701 -66 dB
Flutter tests were: (I am not sure if method was consistent)
Dual CS506 .08% rms
Dual 701 .07% rms
Dual CS5000 .06% rms
Dual 1229 .05% rms
Dual 510 .04% rms
Thorens TD160C .04% rms
I am not surprised that the 510 had better numbers than the 1229. I have them both and it correlates with what I hear. I was surprised that the 510 tested that much better than the 506 because Dual’s own numbers would lead you to believe otherwise. I guess the 8 pole motor with the cast platter beats the 16 pole with the light stamped platter regardless of Dual’s specs. The 701 was interesting. Hirsch commented on the flutter which was centered around 200 Hz and therefore less audible than the same value at lower frequencies. The rumble he said was the lowest he had ever measured at the time. I would have thought the CS5000 would have done better.
I still hold that the 510 may be the real sleeper in the lineup. With less parts to go wrong It should provide stable operation for the rest of the lives of some of us. I could also be persuaded by a later model of the 505 (versions 3 or 4) or by the 510’s stablemate in 1976, the 601.
Gordon, I have to say that I was able to repair the arm position mechanism on the 1229 with no problems. The arm now tracks perfectly well.
Fernando
Dual CS506 -56 dB
Dual 1229 -56 dB
Dual CS5000 -59 dB
Thorens TD160C -60.5 dB
Dual 510 -61.5 dB
Dual 701 -66 dB
Flutter tests were: (I am not sure if method was consistent)
Dual CS506 .08% rms
Dual 701 .07% rms
Dual CS5000 .06% rms
Dual 1229 .05% rms
Dual 510 .04% rms
Thorens TD160C .04% rms
I am not surprised that the 510 had better numbers than the 1229. I have them both and it correlates with what I hear. I was surprised that the 510 tested that much better than the 506 because Dual’s own numbers would lead you to believe otherwise. I guess the 8 pole motor with the cast platter beats the 16 pole with the light stamped platter regardless of Dual’s specs. The 701 was interesting. Hirsch commented on the flutter which was centered around 200 Hz and therefore less audible than the same value at lower frequencies. The rumble he said was the lowest he had ever measured at the time. I would have thought the CS5000 would have done better.
I still hold that the 510 may be the real sleeper in the lineup. With less parts to go wrong It should provide stable operation for the rest of the lives of some of us. I could also be persuaded by a later model of the 505 (versions 3 or 4) or by the 510’s stablemate in 1976, the 601.
Gordon, I have to say that I was able to repair the arm position mechanism on the 1229 with no problems. The arm now tracks perfectly well.
Fernando
I like most of the older Duals
I have three, Two I am using.
The 1229 is a tank. Have a Shure V15 Type III on it. 12 inch platter and a very heavy platter. Cue, Antiskate. Works well.
In mothballs is a 1009F, Has the original base and plexiglass dust cover. It was the good on before United Audio started using a cheap ratty base currrently on Ebay. Nice 10" platter. Very heavy. Cue and antiskate. The plug in head is a pain in the **s sometimes on this series. (1009F, 1009SK and 1019's) as well as the 1010S I had in high shool in the 60's. Try to find a home for it and it did not sell on the Bay. Probalbly will list her here.
The other Dual is the original 1009. Its very plain and maybe thats why I am attracted to this guy. No cue or antiskate. But its a tank, Very heavy platter. At one time I had three of these bad boys. Unit one was to be a parts unit and I fixed it. Great sound. Got it for $20 on Ebay. Got another in mint shape and an OK one. Gave one to my boss. Loves it. Gave one to an AKer whose name I forgot. Hope he likes it. Sent it to Calif. Never charged him for shipping. He had gotten a ratty one and mine had the base and dust cover. I had an AKer sent me a very heavy Teac at no chargeand passed on the favor.Ran my remaining one today in the shop. Making a RTR tape for an AKer. Even though I have the 1229 I do all my recording with the 1009. Its head shell is different than the 1009F and SK's. Better it works. Never has given me any grief.
For nostalga purposes I have tried to get a 1010S like tha one I had in High School. One had a motor issue and the other had a hum I could nt get off. They are the only Duals I could not get to work right. Gave up and sold 'em both.Dont get one of these. Its a low end unit. In 1966 its all I could afford. I also had poor luck with a 1218 that really wasnt the units fault. Be careful when lubricating a Dual. I really me ssed it up. Had a 1215 I got for the base and dust cover. It did not work when I got it but I fixed it and put a ratty base on it I had lying around here and got my $$$ back.
Recommend the 1229. The 1009F or SK's are good but have a 10 inch plattter. I dont hold that against them though. These and the 1019 have cues and antiskate. Hope this helps...
Eric
I have three, Two I am using.
The 1229 is a tank. Have a Shure V15 Type III on it. 12 inch platter and a very heavy platter. Cue, Antiskate. Works well.
In mothballs is a 1009F, Has the original base and plexiglass dust cover. It was the good on before United Audio started using a cheap ratty base currrently on Ebay. Nice 10" platter. Very heavy. Cue and antiskate. The plug in head is a pain in the **s sometimes on this series. (1009F, 1009SK and 1019's) as well as the 1010S I had in high shool in the 60's. Try to find a home for it and it did not sell on the Bay. Probalbly will list her here.
The other Dual is the original 1009. Its very plain and maybe thats why I am attracted to this guy. No cue or antiskate. But its a tank, Very heavy platter. At one time I had three of these bad boys. Unit one was to be a parts unit and I fixed it. Great sound. Got it for $20 on Ebay. Got another in mint shape and an OK one. Gave one to my boss. Loves it. Gave one to an AKer whose name I forgot. Hope he likes it. Sent it to Calif. Never charged him for shipping. He had gotten a ratty one and mine had the base and dust cover. I had an AKer sent me a very heavy Teac at no chargeand passed on the favor.Ran my remaining one today in the shop. Making a RTR tape for an AKer. Even though I have the 1229 I do all my recording with the 1009. Its head shell is different than the 1009F and SK's. Better it works. Never has given me any grief.
For nostalga purposes I have tried to get a 1010S like tha one I had in High School. One had a motor issue and the other had a hum I could nt get off. They are the only Duals I could not get to work right. Gave up and sold 'em both.Dont get one of these. Its a low end unit. In 1966 its all I could afford. I also had poor luck with a 1218 that really wasnt the units fault. Be careful when lubricating a Dual. I really me ssed it up. Had a 1215 I got for the base and dust cover. It did not work when I got it but I fixed it and put a ratty base on it I had lying around here and got my $$$ back.
Recommend the 1229. The 1009F or SK's are good but have a 10 inch plattter. I dont hold that against them though. These and the 1019 have cues and antiskate. Hope this helps...
Eric
