tape monitor loop quandry

Well I thought my new (to me) HK AVR235 had a tape monitor loop, but it appears it does not. Although it has tape in and out, that cant be chosen along with another source. I can live with the fact that modern home theater units dont have a phono section, there are things you can do about that. I cant think of anything you can do about not having a tape monitor loop. No Pre-out/ main-in either, though it has pre-out for each set of speakers it will power. Another thing. A 52 page owners manual? I feel like I just rewired the shuttle and there are still things that it does that I cant access. I mean common HK, its time to reign in the engineers. I did this professionally for a long time, and I find it difficult.
I chose this unit because I had three sources that were digital out and three that were analog out plus two signal processors that i occasionally use. You can imagine my surprise when I hooked up my DBX program route selector through the tape in and outs and found it would not do what I wanted it to.Yes it switches and dubs between my Tape decks, but the two processors will only work with the tape decks. Cant think of a solution, well maybe this one. I've got a Yamaha preamp that I can use to manage the analog inputs. Set it at unity gain and jack it into one of the HKs inputs. I am not crazy about using double preamps but at least they are both high quality. Anyone have any better suggestions? JIM:thumbsdn:

jimbo2k said:

…a Yamaha preamp... Set it at unity gain

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There may be no need to set it at unity gain. You can simply take the signal to send to the AVR from your outboard processor’s LINE OUT terminals.

jimbo2k said:

…Anyone have any better suggestions?

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Why better? It’s the best in your situation, I think.

So, generally Tape in/out loops are patched in just after the input selector and prior to the preamp section from a block-diagram standpoint.

What you are reporting is that this isn't the case for this model, correct? Seems to me that the owner's manual - likely tucked away somewhere - should address this block-level signal flow issue. If there is a switch on the front called, tape in/out or some variant, I would expect it to act as a patch loop. Otherwise, I'd expect documentation to explain the intent of the function provided and how it relates to the now-common tape loop facility that has been in use for decades now.

Cheers,

David

dshoaf said:

So, generally Tape in/out loops are patched in just after the input selector and prior to the preamp section from a block-diagram standpoint.

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Exactly! And these, in conjunction with a "tape monitor" button will either allow the internal signal path to contnue unbroken or, when pushed in, break the internal connection, send the sgnal out via the "tape out" plugs, to the external device and then back in through the "tape in" jacks on the receiver. These were initially designed for use in monitoring the output of three-head tape recorders but other line-level external processors worked fine here, and that ability has been well exploited. Sometimes they are called "External Processor Loops"

Remember, these are not simply stand-alone inputs and outputs, nor were they designed to used as such, although they worked well in that function as well.

These were standard issue in the analog days where two channels ruled, tape decks were the king of sound reproduction, and digital was what we used to "salute" other drivers on the road.

dshoaf said:

What you are reporting is that this isn't the case for this model, correct?

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Times haved changed. Nowadays, these ARE simply two unrelated inputs and outputs. What good is a two-channel analog output with a digital signal? Most users today don't even know what a tape monitor is and are very happy with what they have.

dshoaf said:

Seems to me that the owner's manual - likely tucked away somewhere - should address this block-level signal flow issue. If there is a switch on the front called, tape in/out or some variant, I would expect it to act as a patch loop. Otherwise, I'd expect documentation to explain the intent of the function provided and how it relates to the now-common tape loop facility that has been in use for decades now.

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I'm pretty sure the manual will elucidate on exactly what they can be used for. One cannot "assume" that a "tape in" and "tape out" jacks on the back can be drafted into service as a "loop" without that all-important "Tape Monitor" button on the front. They do make convenient ports for an MP3 player or for an analog connection to a computers sound card.

The highlighted part of your text refers to the all-important "tape monitor" switch and would be labelled as some such and, if it's there, it's purpose would/should be stated in the manual. If it's not there, there's no need to reference it, or it's non-effect on the signal path in the manual. But, with most modern receivers and virtually all AV receivers, dollars to donuts it's not gonna be there.

Remember, times change. That "now common tape loop issue" has been disapperaing from modern units over the past two decades, just like phono stages. We cannot take for granted that what was once common in the 60's and 70's still common, just like phono stages and decent AM stages have pretty much disappeared from mass market units.

The author’s AVR has not external processor monitoring function. His preamp has.
The author has all what he needs.