what are "kabuki speakers"???

Since I came up with the term Kabuki speaker, I get to decide the definition :)

Actually, I posted one earlier that was quoted above. However, this is my definitive version:

Kabuki Speaker = Japanese made speakers from the 60's through the 70's that had a minimum 15" woofer, a minimum 4-way cross-over, at least 6 individual drivers, in a box that is less than 3 cu ft or weighs less than 50lbs.

Out of the above six criteria, the Polk's mentioned above only meet one.

For those wondering about the origin of the term, it had to do with the limited bandwidth and tinny sound that chracterized the first versions of these speakers. As a friend said "You can play Led Zepplin though them and it comes out sounding like Kabuki music".
 
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Well, the CS99As fit the bill on some of those points, built in Japan, made in the 70s, 15' woofer, 4 way network and 6 drivers, I'm not sure about the cubic feet, I know it's not as deep as the HPM100s, I'm not sure it weighs more than 50 lbs, probably not BUT it is a good sounding speaker that is just a cut below below the HPM100s, which is not an insult, IMO.
I'm sure some people would prefer them to the HPMs.

Having meet most of the criteria set forth by Don McRitchie, I still say the CS99As are a quality speaker!! :D
 
'For those wondering about the origin of the term, it had to do with the limited bandwidth and tinny sound that chracterized the first versions of these speakers. As a friend said "You can play Led Zepplin though them and it comes out sounding like Kabuki music".


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AHA. I just wasted a good five minutes of my generally unproductive life looking for the origin of this term. It was right in front of me the whole time.

It reminds me of when I was stationed on Okinawa in the late 70s. The barracks cleaning ladies (Mamasans) used to listen to some of the most godawful music. It was endless variations on the theme of Plunka-Plunka-Plunka TWANGGGGG!

And in case anyone is wondering, those Mamasans might have been young 30 to 50 years ago but they had NEVER been pretty.
 
There is this Troma Studios character named Sgt. Kabukiman. If your not familiar with Troma they are the producers of the Toxic Avenger character. This may be the true origin/meaning of the word 'Kabuki'!?:D
 
Well, unless I'm missing the punchline, I meant kabuki as it applies to speakers.

True kabuki is a form of Japanese theater where, I think, masks and outlandish face painting is used.
I was thinking that possibly the origin referred to the "masking" aspect. In other words, slap enough drivers on the speaker baffle and the gullible consumer will believe that it's GOT to be good!

The old painted lady routine.

But now I see that it refers to the tinny, twangy, plunky kabuki music.
 
Kabuki theater is a very stylized and ancient form of theater that is almost like a very loud puppet show in a way. Only tradition Japanese instruments are used and it can sound very bad to a Westerner. Slaps, rattles, plunks, stomps, screams and grunts. To get even cheap speakers to sound like Kabuki when playing Led Zep would take a major undertaking of wrong choices. Of course they sold like crazy in the US and in PXs around the globe.
 
Well, the CS99As fit the bill on some of those points, built in Japan, made in the 70s, 15' woofer, 4 way network and 6 drivers, I'm not sure about the cubic feet, I know it's not as deep as the HPM100s, I'm not sure it weighs more than 50 lbs, probably not BUT it is a good sounding speaker that is just a cut below below the HPM100s, which is not an insult, IMO.
I'm sure some people would prefer them to the HPMs.

Having meet most of the criteria set forth by Don McRitchie, I still say the CS99As are a quality speaker!! :D
The Sansui SP 5500X fits the description, sounds VERY musical, and images all over.
I would call an Altec 604 "Kabuki"
At least the Japanese used boxes to mount their drivers to. :banana:
Not stick a horn right in front of a driver :nono:

Don talks about enginneering "telling him" that these "kabuki" speakers can't work.
Perhaps he forgot his engineering when it applies to Altec 604's ?
Cavity resonances anyone ?
Sound diffracted from the back of the horn ?

Like most American kids growing up in the 70's, I was "brainwashed" into believing that ALL Jap speakers were junk.
Though I once shamlessly enjoyed some great sounding Japanese speakers brought back from Viet Nam, when I became an "audiophile" it was suddenly taboo to listen to Japanese speakers.

I trust my ears now.
 
I remember being at a friend's house and he had these cheap speakers that were about 4 feet tall. Everyone at this party was like "wow look at those speakers, those are great!" They sounded awful and weighed about 10 pounds each (I could't help it, I just HAD to lift one). It just goes to show that the average person judges audio equipment with there eyes and not there ears!!
 
Kabuki speakers

The ideal loudspeaker would be a one-way system - a single driver!!! :yes:

That's because a crossover network wastes power and produces peaks and dips in the frequency response. However, the practical limitations of physics dictates that the same driver that will accurately reproduce a bass note will not do a very good job on high frequencies and vice-versa. You will notice that woofers are large and tweeters are small.

Many people believe that a 2-way system is the best design in that the trade-off between only 2 drivers is more than offset by having only 1 crossover point. Many well-known and respected speakers are 2-ways, such as many JBL's, Advents, AR and the famous Altec Lansing VOT.

Others believe that a 3-way is the best balance. Witness the JBL 4310-11-12 L-100 series as well as many other well known units.

The 4-way carries this philosophy even further, and some Kabukis were even 5-way!!! :nono:

It WOULD appear that having 5 crossover points would be hard to overcome with even the best drivers EVER made!

My humble opinion was that most of the kabukis suffered from a design tailored for visual appeal as mentioned by others and were tuned for the Japanese consumer. The Pioneer speaker line had many units with this typical sound until they decided to go after the American market in a big way.

The first product that I am aware of tailored for the American market was the CS-R series (300, 500 & 700). These speakers had a definite American (and possibly West Coast) sound and look.

Later the infamous HPM-100 would arrive as a further testament to being designed for the U.S. market.

Disclaimer : I DO own a pair of each of the CS-R300, CS-R500 and CS-R700 and find them quite entertaining. They're not JBLS, but I am fond of them!

I am sure that there are many AKers that can add to or dispute this post with their own opinions. Be civil and add to what we have discussed! :scratch2:
 
To be Kabuki, or not to be Kabuki............
Pioneer CS-99, not!, Sansui SP-X7700, YES!,......Have both, prefer
Pioneer, but listen to both from time to time............Cheers!
 
Different strokes for different folks. But the 604's definately ain't kabuki.

Here is Don's description of Kabuki

"""Kabuki Speaker = Japanese made speakers from the 60's through the 70's that had a minimum 15" woofer, a minimum 4-way cross-over, at least 6 individual drivers, in a box that is less than 3 cu ft or weighs less than 50lb's.
For those wondering about the origin of the term, it had to do with the limited bandwidth and tinny sound that chracterized the first versions of these speakers. As a friend said "You can play Led Zepplin though them and it comes out sounding like Kabuki music".


In a WAY, the Altec 604 most certainly is Kabuki.
They stuck the horn in the center of it's 15" driver to save space.
They didn't have a cabinet for the 604, so they had to stick it somewhere.
By attaching a horn to the woofer, they sold more total parts.

The Japanese were at a big shipping disadvantage, and imposed small compromised cabinets on themselves.

And, as Don pointed out, ALL Japanese speakers are not Kabuki.

Actually, some AMERICAN designs can almost be considered Kabuki.
Older VMPS had drivers everywhere, as did Fultons.
I once owned Fulton Premiere's.

The JBL L 65 Jubal was borderline Kabuki, and so are the JBL L 7's I OWN, LOL

For crying out loud, they stuck a side firing woofer in them crossed way up at 180 HZ.

They can make Neil Diamond sound like Barry White.

To quote Don again ""For those wondering about the origin of the term, it had to do with the limited bandwidth and tinny sound that chracterized the first versions of these speakers"

Since Don is the Lansing Heritage Web Master, let's talk about tinny sound ?
The JBL crinkled Titanium Tweeter is a tinny sounding tweeter.
It is a flawed design.
It inhabits zillions of older JBL's.
JBL made a big boo boo with it.
In an attempt to make the tweeter more ridgid by crinkling the Titanium, they made it worse.

My point is that "tinny sound" in NOT the exclusive province of Japanese speakers.

As Don pointed out, there are good Japanese designs, and bad ones too.

Not ALL JBL and Altec are automatically good, just because they are American.

Come to think of it, some Bozaks were Kabuki, and what about the Rectilinears and Micro Acoustics ?
AR LST was Kabuki :yes:
Design Acoustics D 9 was Kabuki, Bose 901 is Kabuki, Shahanian Obelisk is Kabuki.
JBL L 65 Jubal is borderline Kabuki, and tinny, it's glass top is great if you spill the Saki, or to eat rice on.
I can show you some JBL pro stuff that is total Kabuki, drivers everywhere, to save space.
Yep, JBL pro stuff with 18 inch woofers in SMALL cabinets, sometimes even two of em stuffed in there!

Hey, come to THINK of it, some OLD men down here in Florida had some OLD Altec's that were Kabuki as all get out too.

They were Kabuki Style "low boy" long cabinets with a pair of some kind of Altec contraptions in them.
I listened briefly to them, no low bass, tinny highs, limited bandwidth.

A FAR cry from the VOTT's I used to own, or my Grandpa's Hartsfields.

Hey, I got a idea Don and Celt :banana:

Why not make a Kabuki Speaker thread, and POST examples, both American and Japanese, of any speaker we suspect MIGHT be Kabuki ?

Hey, even the ADS 810 MIGHT be Kabuki ?

It has drivers stuffed into it everywhere, and horizontally arrayed too :nono:

How about a "Kabuki Witch Hunt " :thmbsp:

Kabuki, yes or no ?
http://www.acoustichorn.com/images/old_stuff.jpg
http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=18&ppuser=50
 
1) Not. Simple three-way.

2) Not. No speaker with dual 12" reflex ports qualifies. :p:

[Sorry you don't like 035tiA. Sounds sweet to me.... :thmbsp: ]
 
1) Not. Simple three-way.

2) Not. No speaker with dual 12" reflex ports qualifies. :p:

[Sorry you don't like 035tiA. Sounds sweet to me.... :thmbsp: ]
A Kabuki speaker to me will also have drivers everywhere, no "wasted space".
So, the big JBL in example 2 certainly qualifies.
Of course, it is anything but limited bandwidth !

The 035tia tweeter in my JBL L 7's is not a horrible tweeter, just not as good as it could have been.
They should have made it smooth instead of crinkled.
I have had discussions with ex JBL engineers about it.

I consider it one of the JBL L 7's weaknesses, in an absolute sense.

Of course, it is no match for the B&W tweeter in my Matrix 801's.
I don't expect it to be.
But I honestly feel it isn't even as good a tweeter as the soft domes in my old Event 20/20 passive studio monitors.

The engineer who designed the JBL L 7's is no longer with JBL.
He has the L7's at home.
His have the SMOOTH tweeters.
He says they are much better.

His L 7's are the only pair with the smooth tweeters.
JBL had some plans for the L 7 that never made it to market.
I have BEGGED him to try and get me a pair of the smooth tweeters on a round faceplate to drop in my speakers.

I do not hate this tweeter we are talking about.
I just think it could have been better.
Evidently JBL realized their mistake, and made it smooth instead of crinkled in later versions.
MY problem is going to be to FIND a pair of the smooth titanium tweeters on round Faceplates that will fit right into the JBL L 7's.

The JBL L 7 is My "Kabuki JBL" :banana:

Although certainly NOT of limited bandwidth, it is a 4 WAY. :yes:
 
Ive picked up several pairs of 70's Sansuis for cheap over the years,and I almost always pair them up with electronics for friends without systems,mainly because Sansui speakers are almost always not to my liking sonically.Treble heavy and not very musically integrated to these ears.But everytime I give these to friends,I always get compliments later on how well they "crank".I think these all sold so well because they tended to be very efficient,so they made good party speakers,even paired with lower powered receivers.I have a pair of SP-X7000 that Ive hooked up to a little tube amp that cant be more than 3 watts,and I even get good volume from this setup.
Jimmy
 
Let's not and say we did. :thumbsdn:
Heck Celt, we could have a LOT of fun with this whole "Kabuki Thing"

We could even send out the "Kabuki Police" to make un announced visits to audiophiles homes, looking for any speaker even remotely Kabuki ?

Once the "Kabuki Police" find a suspect speaker in our homes, they will send it off to the FBI {Federal Bandwidth Inspectors} for measurement!

Then, it will go to the DEA {Design Enforcement Administration} to be sure it is not Kabuki.
 
Ive picked up several pairs of 70's Sansuis for cheap over the years,and I almost always pair them up with electronics for friends without systems,mainly because Sansui speakers are almost always not to my liking sonically.Treble heavy and not very musically integrated to these ears.But everytime I give these to friends,I always get compliments later on how well they "crank".I think these all sold so well because they tended to be very efficient,so they made good party speakers,even paired with lower powered receivers.I have a pair of SP-X7000 that Ive hooked up to a little tube amp that cant be more than 3 watts,and I even get good volume from this setup.
Jimmy
I have never heard any Sansui Speaker recently, except the SP 5500X 'S I just picked up.
They are not as you describe sonically, but are efficient.
 
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