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AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)

Jack, don't feel like your input isn't wanted in this thread, if you have some ideas, let's hear them.

Thanks for the invite. I really wanted to avoid another "project" where I would end up with some more "keepers." Our house is flooded with them. And I don't have enough friends who would still take a pair, even if they are free.

But I broke down and ordered a Behringer CX-3400 electronic crossover, and so ordered the Goldwood 8 inch woofers and silk dome tweeters, so now have another project. They will go into slightly larger cabinets, that I already have, so they don't really fit in this project.

Damn, hate when that happens.

:banana::banana::banana::banana:
 
Snorkel Duct:

The curved-side cabinet presents some design challenges, among these being duct placement. The easy answer is a rear port; there's plenty of room for that, but I wanted to circumvent any placement issues with these, as they are appropriately used desktop, bookshelf, and wall or stand-mounted. I also liked the idea of being able to swap on different baffles with alternative driver loads and box tunings; thus a front-mount port and duct became a design objective. Offsetting the tweeter 1/2" from the centerline made room for the port on the front of the baffle.

There is an interior brace in the cabinet, shown in earlier pics. While PE says it may be removed, I prefer to leave it in place. Also, with the curved sides, the cabinet narrows toward the rear, so, even with the brace removed, a straight shot rearward is not workable (though an angled one would be.)

Another issue is location of the inside duct opening. The rear of the woofer puts out sound much like the front, and if the opening is in the immediate proximity of the driver, that sound comes out the port and interferes with the direct radiation from the front. Thus, it's important to direct the interior opening away from the back side of the woofer, and aim it at a non-reflective surface.

ABS DWV fittings are available at Home Depot and similar in a full spectrum of angles to configure a duct in just about any desired shape. Here, I've used a "Street" 45° and a regular one, plus a couple of short lengths of 1.5" ABS pipe to snake through the brace and up behind the tweeter, with an overall length somewhere between 8" and 8.5", depending upon how it's measured. There is a straight line of sight through the duct, in this case, but that is not essential:

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Snorkel port? Wish my high school German was good enough to name it appropriately. (Unterseepipen/breathen/nosen?) I'm in the middle of a bathroom rehab and recognize that PVC immediately.

Great job Zilch.

Have we/you decided on a name for the finished product? I've heard "Indignia," "AK-1," and ........
 
Sheesh, I go away for a weekend and you guys go and all but finish the project. I should have gone away sooner. Great job guys!!

Z, have you tried a simple notch on that hump to check the sound out?

Ray
 
Have we/you decided on a name for the finished product? I've heard "Indignia," "AK-1," and ........
We're calling them "Karma I(ndignia)" around ZilchLab. Whether that's appropriate or not, I hesitate to venture.... :p:

Z, have you tried a simple notch on that hump to check the sound out?
Welcome back to the fray, Ray!

I used AutoEQ to notch it for listening evaluation.

I'm having some success today using Gordon's low "Q" lowpass with a third-order highpass. A few more tweaks, and I'll post the results for evaluation.... :thmbsp:
 
They didn't come together until I got a handle on the phase alignment. Symmetrical 2-Pole had it ~10° up from tweeter axis; now it's on axis midway between the drivers using 3-Pole in the highpass. Gordon's suggestion for the lowpass mitigated the hump, and I was able to move the acoustic crossover up to just over 1.8 kHz. We've got +/- 2.5 dB with this approach now:

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The two tweeters are not well matched in sensitivity or HF extension. I've ordered up another one to see which is "typical." RTA curves are ~30° off axis, with the mic at the acoustic center between the left and right speakers. Compare to the B&K "Optimum Hi-Fi" in-room response curve, bottom:

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I'll remeasure and provide the data files and schematic tomorrow.

[Busy listening now.... :thmbsp: ]
 

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Looking at the in-room curves, I would speculate that we might need to nuke just a bit more of the midrange peak @ ~600-1500 Hz or so. That might make the dip at 300-500 Hz a bit less apparent, in listening.

Even if it means you wind up padding down the tweeter a tad more, it might 'warm up" the overall sound a bit. And it probably won't require more than a dB or so, IME...

On that subject... have you moved the speakers around in the room (or taken them outdoors, etc) and measured the on- and off-axis response curves? I wonder if that dip at 300-500 is an "Allison dip" (floor bounce cancellation)? If so, then it's probably much less of an issue than it looks like (hence, why 1 dB changes can oftentimes make all the difference, when it looks like 2-3 dB errors)...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Yeah, what he said. A 400Hz dip would be ~5' difference in pathlength. How high do you have them off the floor, Z? And do you have soft stuff between the speaker and mic? Is that a summed response or just a far field?

Note: I have a new laptop, have Soundeasy installed, and I'm trudging up the learning curve. Have to dig through the help files for a few more things and I have a "design guide" on the way that should help.

Ray
 
Thanks again, Gordon! I'm at 2.2 mH/8.2 uF for the lowpass right now. I'll see what I can manipulate in Spice to optimize that a bit more. The woofer is supporting the tweeter to some extent all the way up to 5 kHz via summation, so it's going have to be finessed at this point.

[Dave's in charge of "finesse" here.... :yes: ]

Yeah, what he said. A 400Hz dip would be ~5' difference in pathlength. How high do you have them off the floor, Z? And do you have soft stuff between the speaker and mic? Is that a summed response or just a far field?
Tweeter axis is 53" up, and mic is 42" back. The "dip" shows in the windowed MLS response as well, so my guess is it's real, but I'll pad the floor to see if it makes a difference.

RTA "Sum" is acoustic sum. The mic's on acoustic center between the speaks 42" back playing concurrently. C/C on the tweeters is 36", so 23.2° off axis of each....

Note: I have a new laptop, have Soundeasy installed, and I'm trudging up the learning curve. Have to dig through the help files for a few more things and I have a "design guide" on the way that should help.
Parts for this project are on the way too, are they? ;)
 

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RTA "Sum" is acoustic sum. The mic's on acoustic center between the speaks 42" back playing concurrently. C/C on the tweeters is 36", so 23.2° off axis of each....

How about a nearfield on the woofer up to 500Hz or so to see if it's a driver thing? I know, I'm very cavalier with your time. ;)

Parts for this project are on the way too, are they? ;)

Not yet, but soon. You guys are a bad influence.

Ray
 
We're calling them "Karma I(ndignia)" around ZilchLab. Whether that's appropriate or not, I hesitate to venture.

You're doing all the work Zilch. I think that entitles you to naming rights.:thmbsp:
 
You're doing all the work Zilch. I think that entitles you to naming rights.:thmbsp:

Hey, he's not doing ALL the work. I'm doing a pretty darn good job of patting him on the back. I wouldn't want him to tear a rotator cuff or anything.

Ray
 
OK, Ray, but I thought the back patting was my job. My point was you guys doing the actual work should have naming rights. If it's more than one then you'll need to vote. Now who's the superdelegate?

I just want to hear the darn things.
 
Warmed Up

How about a nearfield on the woofer up to 500Hz or so to see if it's a driver thing?
Yup, it's there:

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I abandoned Low "Q" as means to mitigate the bump in favor of a conjugate:

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Here's how they're running with that, +/- 2 dB, looks like:

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And here's what's involved in doing this the hard way:

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This design crossover component cost is $38.96 the pair.

Drivers are $72.12.

Total: $111.08.

I've obviously gone out of control here.

['Til you hear 'em.... ;) ]

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