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Klh 17

Neat, huh?

It's what I do. :yes:

[I'm still trying to figure this one out.... ;) ]


what you do is magic, really! But how bout a tweeter that is close enough to use the existing mount points, or am i stupid and not realizing thats what you did.

Either way :ntwrthy: for thinking about the box!
 
What you do is magic, really! But how bout a tweeter that is close enough to use the existing mount points....
KLH 17 tweeter is not on the centerline, and thus they are not mirror-imaged, and imaging suffers. It was not an issue when these were designed; max dispersion and soundstage were the priority.

This waveguide will drop right in the existing opening, but if you want to center it, you'll have to hog out a bit on the right edge. Ideally, you'd want to move it over even further on one of the pair to mirror-image them, leaving the other in the stock position. I'm not sure this waveguide is wide enough to achieve that, but the 18-Sound one most likely is.

Why is that? Diffraction effects from the cabinet edge will be greater via summation if the driver is centered. I believe that's less of an issue with a controlled directivity waveguide, but there's still some HF energy at 90° off-axis; the cutoff is not absolute.... :yes:
 
KLH 17 tweeter is not on the centerline, and thus they are not mirror-imaged.

This waveguide will drop right in the existing opening, but if you want to center it, you'll have to hog out a bit on the right edge. Ideally, you'd want to move it over even further on one of the pair to mirror-image them, leaving the other in the stock position. I'm not sure this waveguide is wide enough to achieve that, but the 18-Sound one most likely is.

Why is that? Diffraction effects from the cabinet edge will be greater if the driver is centered. I believe that's less of an issue with a controlled directivity waveguide, but there's still some HF energy at 90° off-axis; the cutoff is not absolute.... :yes:

seriously, you should be paid for sharing this knowledge!
:thmbsp:

How bout the less loved 23s I have? I know the dimensions change, but the driver layout is offset, and the face is much wider to negate any cabinet edge effects.

Dare I hack those puppies up?

klh23-3_large.jpeg
 
Dare I hack those puppies up?
Certainly not until I get a crossover working here. I do like both of these HF drivers and waveguide combinations, but if your 23s are deeper than the 17s, the 8" square EconoWave may be a better option, since it uses a PT waveguide. How deep are the 23s inside?

I haven't solved the woofer problem yet, either. I'll be posting measurements using the two model 17 woofers I have, but the results do not support KLH 17 bass response as characterized by the many AKers who have them. I'm trying to get ahold of another pair to verify that there's nothing wrong with these. They're the primary reason this pair was headed for the landfill; updated AR4xs outperformed them by a substantial margin.

JBL 116H-1 plays better than the stock woofers I have in these. It performs even more optimally vented, according to the calcs, but I do not want to port these unless I have to.

The Goldwood certainly delivers bass in this alignment, but the measurements do not conform to the model; I need to figure that out. It's not really a small closed-box woofer, either, and develops excursion issues and modulation distortion when I crank on the lower frequencies. It fits the 10.25" counterbore perfectly, and does LOOK cool, but that's not the fundamental objective here.... ;)
 
Certainly not until I get a crossover working here. I do like both of these HF drivers and waveguide combinations, but if your 23s are deeper than the 17s, the 8" square EconoWave may be a better option, since it uses a PT waveguide. How deep are the 23s inside?

I haven't solved the woofer problem yet, either. I'll be posting measurements using the two model 17 woofers I have, but the results do not support KLH 17 bass response as characterized by the many AKers who have them. I'm trying to get ahold of another pair to verify that there's nothing wrong with these. They're the primary reason this pair was headed for the landfill; updated AR4xs outperformed them by a substantial margin.

I'll measure anything you need me to this weekend as im visting Chicago (where the 23s live). I'd lend you my 17 woofers, but shipping would be a killer.

I'm really intersted in this project since I always thought something was missing in the KLH two way. Modern HF drivers seem to be the ticket.
 
Round Three:

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Y'all can see what I'm puzzling over:

1) The stock KLH-17 woofer is down 10 dB @ 50 Hz. It's either defective, or KLH-17's legendary bass is imaginary.

2) JBL 116H-1 plays a full 15 Hz lower.

3) Goldwood GW-10PC-40 exhibits 5 dB of boom in this alignment. That's not what the model shows. I'll try the second one to verify.

4) JBL LE10H-1 replicates its model and published response curve well. The rising response could be "fixed" with baffle step compensation, but it would still not make "big" bass in this small closed-box alignment.

For now, 116H-1 is the clear winner. More stock KLH-17 woofers should be measured for confirmation of these results. I'd sure be pleased to find that the originals actually perform well, as it's difficult to find a suitable alternative to fit.... :yes:
 

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grille cloth emporium and spa?

Just bought a set of klh 17's yesterday for $10 but i'm not hacking mine apart... yet.
 
11.25 inches from front to back.

The 8" square PT waveguide with Selenium driver will fit.

Skywave-rider is ahead of us on testing that combination in the E'Wave thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2209489#post2209489

That's a "Go," I would say. :yes:


Still need 17 woofers?
I have some alternative Daytons coming this week. In the meantime, I'll try to figure a way of sending 17 woofs back and forth, maybe USPS fixed rate.

No locals have 17s I can measure here...? :dunno:
 
WHat is the total depth needed in the 23? I measured outside subtracting a bit to compensate.
The 8" square PT waveguide measures 7.875" from the rear of the flange (front of baffle) to the back of an installed Selenium D220Ti.

Too deep for 17 without cutting a clearance hole in the rear panel, but.... ;)
 
How much cash you want to throw at it? The Dayton RS270S-8 looks like it might work for you. In .9cuft you'd be around 60 for f3 and 49 for f6. Shallow roll off with a ~.7 Qtc. The published FR looks like you might get 1.5kHz out of it.

The Audax HT240G0 is on sale for $28 and gives similar performance (f6 of 52 sealed) but I don't have a FR on hand so I don't know what the top end looks like.

Did you take out the volume of the horn?

Ray
 
Oh oh, how 'bout this one? Eclipse W1038R from Madisound. In .9cuft it'll get you f3 of 50 and f6 of 39. However, with an Le of 1.4mH you might roll off before your WG takes over. Don't have a FR. And it's from my homies back at the big E. ;)

Personally, I think ol' Mona would look better in a bikini.

Ray
 
Yeah,I just picked up the Mona Lisa today.
THAT, fellow AKer, is yet to be determined. They were headed for the landfill because they sounded like poop. They measured like poop, too. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in suggesting that the stock woofers that were in these are damaged or defective, and seeking means of making a more definitive determination.

As to the Mona Lisa analogy, specifically, we've been over that in thread after thread after thread here. I have long since learned better than to listen to any of it with respect to describing a loudspeaker. You're talking about YOU, not the speaker, or how it might actually perform, which is another matter entirely.

I fully understand and appreciate that there are many members who like and enjoy these and similar thrift store "finds," and pursue their restoration with considerable satisfaction. That is NOT, however, the only rational course.... :no:
 
How much cash you want to throw at it? The Dayton RS270S-8 looks like it might work for you.
It's DC250-8 I'm trying next, acquired, actually, for a different project.

Did you take out the volume of the horn?
I sometimes do, but haven't here. It's a crap shoot guestimating. Even when I try to measure that, I seem to get it wrong. :dunno:

The Audax HT240G0 is on sale for $28 and gives similar performance (f6 of 52 sealed) but I don't have a FR on hand so I don't know what the top end looks like.
Seems there's good reason the early two-way AS designers struggled with getting tweeters to play low enough to match up with low Fs, high Qts woofers....
 
THAT is yet to be determined. They were headed for the landfill because they sounded like poop. They measured like poop, too.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in suggesting that the stock woofers that were in these are damaged or defective, and seeking means to making a more definitive determination.

As to the Mona Lisa analogy, specifically, we've been over that in thread after thread after thread here. I don't listen to any of it with respect to describing a loudspeaker. You're talking about YOU, not the speaker, or how it might actually perform, which is another matter entirely.

I fully understand and appreciate that there are many members who like and enjoy these and similar thrift store "finds," and pursue their restoration with considerable satisfaction. That is NOT, however, the only rational course.... :no:

I think there is a lot to be said about technology. If Kloss had access to what we have access to today, he would have created a better loudspeaker. Look at his later stuff, it always got better in terms of "ideal" speaker characterisitcs.

I have no problem ripping out all the drivers, but i think there is a middle ground where we can use the box without cutting it, just want to have the option of selling the speaker one day to someone trying to re-live the "good ole days"
 
THAT is yet to be determined. They were headed for the landfill because they sounded like poop. They measured like poop, too.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in suggesting that the stock woofers that were in these are damaged or defective, and seeking means to making a more definitive determination.

As to the Mona Lisa analogy, specifically, we've been over that in thread after thread after thread here. I don't listen to any of it with respect to describing a loudspeaker. You're talking about YOU, not the speaker, or how it might actually perform, which is another matter entirely.

I fully understand and appreciate that there are many members who like and enjoy these and similar thrift store "finds," and pursue their restoration with considerable satisfaction. That is NOT, however, the only rational course.... :no:

Ive tried going through your econowave thread,but its longer than War and Peace,and I cant make heads or tails of it,or find a succinct answer to any question I have.
I guess as a member of the Great Unwashed,Ill just go back into my black hole of audio ignorance.
Jimmy
 
Ive tried going through your econowave thread,but its longer than War and Peace,and I cant make heads or tails of it,or find a succinct answer to any question I have.

Try just asking the question in the thread. You'll most likely either get the answer straight up or a link the the right post(s) about it.

Ray
 
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