Klh 17

2DualsNotEnough · Nov 3, 2008

Thanks,Ray.I do appreciate that.
BTW,I dont think the KLH 17 is a perfect speaker,but I just think of it like an old car,like an MG or a Pinto.I know a lot of people will update them to perform better,but I prefer the idea or restoring or preserving what it was to begin with,rather than turn it into something else,but thats just my opinion.
Jimmy

RayW · Nov 3, 2008

Nothing wrong with being a purist in the vintage audio sense. That's where our sense of history comes from. Just don't invite Zilch to your garage sale.

Ray

Zilch · Nov 3, 2008

2DualsNotEnough said:
I guess as a member of the Great Unwashed,Ill just go back into my black hole of audio ignorance.

No, no, NO, damnit! :nono:

The whole purpose of E'Wave is to provide you and everyone else an easy and economical path to experimenting with modern loudspeaker design concepts.

Click the link to the Project Summary in the first post, spend $168, join in the adventure, and experience what all those other AKers have discovered over there.... :yes:

Ausjoe · Nov 3, 2008

Maybe the original woofer is leaking air through the surround? They are often in need of redoping. Just a thought.

Zilch · Nov 4, 2008

Stock woofer:

AKer Deafanddumb (herinafter referred to as "D&D"

) kindly loaned me a pair of stock KLH 17s to measure. One has no tweeter, and I'll have to seal it up or swap the woofer into another cab to obtain LF response measurements. Here's the result on the intact one:

We tested for leaks with a stethoscope @ 30 Hz.

Input to the rear terminals, the crossover is in place.

Down 6 dB at 58.07 Hz; there's nobody home below 45 Hz.

It's marginally better than the ones I have, according to the measurements.

Yeah, I'll measure all four at once to compare them directly, and the rest, as well....

Urizen · Nov 4, 2008

Ausjoe said:
Maybe the original woofer is leaking air through the surround? They are often in need of redoping.

Excellent point.

Those should measure better than that.

Zilch · Nov 4, 2008

Urizen said:
Those should measure better than that.

As of now, they don't, and we checked for surround leakage. The evidence is accumulating here.

This is a slam dunk measurement; anyone with an RTA can do it. Put the mic 1/4" out from the center of the dome per the method described by Small et al.

What do you get...? :dunno:

Urizen · Nov 4, 2008

Zilch said:
As of now, they don't, and we checked for surround leakage. The evidence is accumulating here.

This is a slam dunk measurement; anyone with an RTA can do it. Put the mic 1/4" out from the center of the dome per the method developed by Small et al.

What do you get...?

I don't have an RTA, only an SPL meter, and my ears. My son now has my old Seventeens. I don't have memories of the Seventeen sounding that bass shy. Measurements don't lie, though.

Do you have any Eileen's handy? I'd like to see charts comparing one re-doped to one not. I'm not doubting your methods, just curious.

Btw, my AR-2x are begging to be "waved".:yes:

Zilch · Nov 4, 2008

Urizen said:
I'd like to see charts comparing one re-doped to one not.

Send me a pair of re-doped ones, and I'll measure them.

I have consulted with "The one who knows" about this, and he says, unless you can see actual holes through the surrounds, (not just transparency through the weave,) it doesn't matter.

As we've read elsewhere, they're supposed to "leak" somewhat to permit pressure equalization.

The pair I have have been re-doped, too heavily even, perhaps, enough so that the compliance feels "stiff" in comparison to these stock ones.

Urizen said:
Btw, my AR-2x are begging to be "waved".:yes:

I met with an AKer "doing" AR2Ax this past weekend. Stay tuned....

Urizen · Nov 4, 2008

Zilch said:
Send me a pair of re-doped ones, and I'll measure them.

I don't think my son would like that. You can "overdope" these surrounds. I've also heard that you don't want to completely seal them. They need to breath just a little.

I'm surprised at your measurements, although I always ran mine with a sub when I had them here.

Good luck with your project, and send my best to the "one who knows".

deafanddumb · Nov 4, 2008

Zilch, I think the missing tweeter may be inside of the cabinet and just loose. I remember something banging around in there when picking them up.

By the way it was nice meeting you today. Your shop errr LAB is quite a site. There is barely enough room for anyone to get around. There are so many speakers and projects going on in one area it is amazing. All of his work is really an asset to everyone on this forum and others.

Zilch · Nov 6, 2008

deafanddumb said:
Zilch, I think the missing tweeter may be inside of the cabinet and just loose. I remember something banging around in there when picking them up.

Yup, it was down there. As you suspected, the voice coil is open circuit, alas....

ity:

********

More data from D&D's 17s:

The rear attenuation switch doesn't do much in the "Increase" position. That may be due to a defective component in the crossover, or a tweeter that has no more boost to give:

A simple polar measurement indicates major roll-off at 30° off-axis. Did someone say something about wide HF dispersion? Not this one, apparently:

Four woofers nearfield, D&D's are almost perfectly matched. My pair, also well matched, continue to deteriorate as their "wrong" re-dopant cures. Only new surrounds can save them at this point; I may do that, actually, and acquire some Aileen's.

Indignia gratuitously offered up for comparison, -6 dB at 43.5 Hz with its port closed:

Zilch · Nov 10, 2008

Round Four:

Dayton DC250-8:

Tweaked for listening:

Now that it's ported, I'll try the Goldwood again.... :dunno:

Paratima · Nov 15, 2008

New Guy

Sitting here with two pair of 17's, a hat-full of parts and a PE catalog, waiting (semi-)patiently. :lurk:

One pair was built in 1969 and the bass is lacking somewhat. The 2nd pair was bought used around 1980, but has no date markings, uses different components and even styling (vinyl finish), and has much stronger bass.

Zilch · Nov 15, 2008

Welcome aboard!

Hang in with me here, it's gettin' close.

It's going to be a challenge making a passive filter to play like I show above, (+/- 1 dB :yikes:

,) but if I can get anywhere close, it'll be worth the effort; the high end is sounding mighty nice with these inexpensive components.... :thmbsp:

Paratima · Nov 15, 2008

Cool, Z. I'm in no hurry. Read through the entire EconoWave thing - a bit like War and Peace, no? :lmao:

But most of the folks there seem to be doing things on a bigger scale than I have in mind. My current digs have not so much room for BIG speaks as for several smaller systems. I was really trying to figure out how applicable the E-Wave would be for the KLH's when Va-Voom! this new thread appears. I'm lovin' it. Take your time. I enjoy watching a real craftsman at work! :thmbsp:

Zilch · Nov 21, 2008

Dope

O.K., what is the forum recommended procedure for re-doping KLH 17 woofer surrounds using Aleene's Tacky Glue?

Aleene's courtesy member Deafanddumb.... :thmbsp:

Paratima · Nov 21, 2008

Dunno, Zilch. I used this stuff, acrylic latex caulk with silicone, diluted about 50-50 with water.

Brush on one coat & go have a beer. Or two. Well, as many as needed.

secondslc · Nov 21, 2008

Zilch said:
O.K., what is the forum recommended procedure for re-doping KLH 17 woofer surrounds using Aleene's Tacky Glue?

Aleene's courtesy member Deafanddumb.... :thmbsp:

Thats what I used. :thmbsp:

Paratima · Nov 21, 2008

secondslc said:
Thats what I used. :thmbsp:

Yes, but how? Straight out of the bottle? Diluted with 2 parts gin? Need details.

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